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Comment by John Schander on February 24, 2009 at 3:00pm

The problem we are having is that people are not only converting them to apts.,they also build a " house " around a single wide, and if you don't know that the single wide is in there, and interior attack can get you killed quickly. We have several of these in our area and they range from well built to scrap lumber and bricks used.

Comment by Billy Schmidt on February 23, 2009 at 10:40pm

South Florida is full of mobile home parks, and some of these manufactured homes are 30+ years old. An increase in population here has also prompted many people to convert these mobile homes into 2 or 3 apartments to house several families. These conversions are difficult to identify from the outside.

Comment by FETC on February 23, 2009 at 4:54pm

I would agree that the one's I have seen post trailer fire... the ones that were hauled in and replaced the earlier death trap were modular construction. MDF or Luan in the older ones - sorry wrong choice of words - bottom line is it all burns hot and fast. Similiar to setting up the flashover container with the material needed to fuel the flashover.

And yes the newer ones are no trailer, sheetrock, etc. Long story short, even after three posts you went on track with my size-up considerations... Some continue to make entry on born losers.

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on February 23, 2009 at 4:37pm

I would be curious to know why there was entry with no life threat.
I'd use a piercing nozzle. As soon as you open a door: Buh Bye!
TCSS.
Art

Comment by Ed Laugesen on February 23, 2009 at 3:48pm

Back on the origonal subject, limit interior attackes on all structures. If there is not creditable info. that a resuce is possible hit it with a fog stream and let the steam do the job. I know it is old school, but it really works. Then use positive pressure ventilation to move the steam out so you can go in and mop up. Every structure is different, but I have never seen a fire pushed through a building unless the attack crew was using too small of a line with low volume flow, you have to put water on the fire in sufficient quantity to overcome the heat production and cool it. Little fire - little flow, Big fire - big flow. and if you aren't sure just use a bit flow until id darkens down then cut back.

Comment by Ed Laugesen on February 23, 2009 at 3:24pm

Sorry about the beginning, I'm new at this.

Comment by Ed Laugesen on February 23, 2009 at 3:23pm

Manufactured Housing (MOBILE HOMES)Posted by Ed Laugesen on February 23, 2009 at 3:21pm
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Delete Post Manage My Blog I know now that I will irritate a few people in this collumn however it once again appears that there are a lot of personnel out there that just repeat what someone has told them in the past without researching the issue to obtain the truth.
1. There has not been a quote "Mobile Home" built in the United States since way back in the Sixties. Homes buitl since the early 70's were manufactured and transported out to the site and when placed on what ever foundation they wanted were really not designed to be moved again. (Iknow a lot are though) The true MOBILE HOME was on a large RV Frame and the wheels were never taken off allowing the owner to simply disconnect utilities and hitch up and move to another location, renting the site much like modern day big RV's do. In the mid-seventies the entire industry was required to comply with HUD specifications for manufacture which in most respects used a lot of the same materials that go into conventional site built homes.
2. I will accept that most of the units manufactured into the eighties incorporated metal siding and metal roofs which do hold the heat in to a major degree.
3. I worked in the industry for 11 years and never saw any MDF used in the old homes, most had luan paneling and a lot had standard 1/4" plywood paneling which if I am not mistaken was also used quite extensivly in site built housing because it was cheap(It does burn fast).
4. During the late 80's and early 90's the industry moved to using prefinished sheetrock on the interior and vinyl siding on the exterior somewhat like sight built homes.
5. The main weak point in a manufactured home is the roof structure, in most homes it is made up of finger-jointed 2x2's with 3/8" OSB and shingles. This does not make for a safe environment for any type of loading on the roof.
6. To really understand what you are getting into maybe personnel should schedule a visit to a manufactured housing plant to really see how they are built, go out and visit construction sites for conventional homes(I'm sure the Contractor will allow you on site if you ask) and while you are at it try and check out the Modular Home Industry also because it is another different beast using vast numbers of finger-jointed and tongue & groove glued joiuts to generate straight lumber.

In ending I will say that the newer manufactured homes comprised of medium size solid timber floors on a steel frame and 2x6" exterior side walls are as safe and energy efficient as site built housing with teh exception of the roof (It remains the one area that is weak). I recently took a tour of a modular home plant operated by one of the major companies building modular housing and aquired a different opinion of their product. I was supprised at the extensive use of finger-jointed timbers. The only solid wood I saw was the perimeter joist around the floor. I you look bact at research done in our industry you will find many references to "Engineered Beams and Timbers" and how they come apart when heated in a fire. I guess what I'm trying to say all construction can be very dangerous to interior fire-fighting so LEARN the BEAST and find out all you can about how builtings are really built.

BE SAFE.

Comment by FETC on February 23, 2009 at 10:49am

People choose to live in these death traps. You are right, it is a occupied flashover container with MDF paneling on all of the walls and ceiling. Then add in propane gas for cooking, a woodstove or pellet stove.... all adds up to a recipe for disaster.

The key here is a doing a good sizeup by the first arriving unit to determine if the unit is TENABLE or NOT. These tend to be very under-ventilated fires, due to the aluminum construction holding in the heat, the occupancy having very small windows. I have found they are almost always untenable unless there is early notification and a very rapid response from the FD; ie: 4 minutes or less.

Therefore, like many previous trailer fires that have turned into a bigger disaster post FD arrival. We see tunnel vision, poor size-up and lack of identifying the personal safety hazards of the occupancy that bite us in the ass. (Too hot for civilians, not securing the gas, utilities, etc.)

Another thought, is these are often occupied with elderly who are on home O2 with a LOx machine or many cylinders located throughout the trailer. Another recipe for disaster.

Risk verse Gain..... Risk verse Gain..... Someone needs to be asking themselves, why am I sending my guys into this trailer? What am I going to get for the risk my men are about to take...

Your answer to the simple question should drive your decision to go OFFENSIVE OR DEFENSIVE

Comment by Greg Jakubowski on February 22, 2009 at 9:19pm

Paul - gotta agree with your last comment big time! I will say on the industrial side, I investigated a working fire in a "Safety Training Trailer" for a building project. Quick response by the first due company, and a closed door on the room of origin at one end, kept the fire confined to a 3rd of the trailer. But - the trailer was replaced anyway.

Greg

Comment by Paul Young on February 22, 2009 at 8:53pm

Another thing that folks forget, is fire below. The mobile flashover chamber is right. Couple that with MDF floors that don't like heat and big firefighters, so falling through is a definite problem. Sound that floor. Another thing is as the author stated, single wide mobile homes are built like a horizontal chimney. If the occupants are out, and you know that for sure, consider a defensive attack. I have yet to see a mobile home rebuilt. I know the macho thing is to see how much heat we can take. My department has a motto, Risk alot to save alot, risk a little to save a little, and risk nothing to save nothing. BTW, I hate mobile home fires.

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