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NM firefighters sue over 'scene from hell'
FireRescue1 is reporting an interesting lawsuit taking place in Carlsbad.
CARLSBAD, N.M. — Firefighters and rescue workers who responded to a "scene from hell" after a gas pipeline explosion near Carlsbad in August 2000 won the right from the New Mexico Supreme Court to sue for emotional distress two years ago.
Read the full article at
http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems/articles/598542-NM-firefighters...
I'd be watching this one very closely as the outcome could have significant affects on the all emergency services not only in the USA, but potnetially all over the world.
At the heart of the matter is the emotional distress suffered by the firefighters by what they saw at the scene.
For too many years, CIS/PTS (or whatever other stress you want to call it!) has been swept under the mat.
Read the responses- one 30 year veteran says, "Seeing bad things is part of the job we all signed on for. If you can't deal with it get out of the service." His closing remarks are even more interesting, "Sorry Brothers but I hope you guys don't get a dime and the shyster lawyers representing you don't get their legal fees paid either. It's guys like you that are ruining the reputation of the Fire Service."
Let's not even pursue the use of the word "brother" where he's openly critical of their actions and the lawsuit.
I take to task the mentality that this is how it is, toughen up, etc.
Tell that to the volumes of emergency services who responded to our Black Saturday fires last fire season here in Australia. That fire will affect many of them for years and years to come. No one signs up to see and experience the trauma they saw over those few weeks. I have some very seasoned and expreienced friend who responded as part of the Strike Teams and they have all said pretty much the same thing, "If I never see anything like that again, it'll be too soon".
CIS/PTS is very real.
We can't continue to sweep it under the floor, ignoring it and hoping it will go away.
On the flipside however, I fear that the outcome of this case could potentially open the floodgates on a host of flase claims. Mental and psychological illnesses can be incredibly hard to identify and prove. Could this create a raft of lawsuits that will make a mockery of a serious issue?
As someone who has gone through my share of both formal and informal counselling, I hope not....
CARLSBAD, N.M. — Firefighters and rescue workers who responded to a "scene from hell" after a gas pipeline explosion near Carlsbad in August 2000 won the right from the New Mexico Supreme Court to sue for emotional distress two years ago.
Read the full article at
http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-ems/articles/598542-NM-firefighters...
I'd be watching this one very closely as the outcome could have significant affects on the all emergency services not only in the USA, but potnetially all over the world.
At the heart of the matter is the emotional distress suffered by the firefighters by what they saw at the scene.
For too many years, CIS/PTS (or whatever other stress you want to call it!) has been swept under the mat.
Read the responses- one 30 year veteran says, "Seeing bad things is part of the job we all signed on for. If you can't deal with it get out of the service." His closing remarks are even more interesting, "Sorry Brothers but I hope you guys don't get a dime and the shyster lawyers representing you don't get their legal fees paid either. It's guys like you that are ruining the reputation of the Fire Service."
Let's not even pursue the use of the word "brother" where he's openly critical of their actions and the lawsuit.
I take to task the mentality that this is how it is, toughen up, etc.
Tell that to the volumes of emergency services who responded to our Black Saturday fires last fire season here in Australia. That fire will affect many of them for years and years to come. No one signs up to see and experience the trauma they saw over those few weeks. I have some very seasoned and expreienced friend who responded as part of the Strike Teams and they have all said pretty much the same thing, "If I never see anything like that again, it'll be too soon".
CIS/PTS is very real.
We can't continue to sweep it under the floor, ignoring it and hoping it will go away.
On the flipside however, I fear that the outcome of this case could potentially open the floodgates on a host of flase claims. Mental and psychological illnesses can be incredibly hard to identify and prove. Could this create a raft of lawsuits that will make a mockery of a serious issue?
As someone who has gone through my share of both formal and informal counselling, I hope not....
Add a Comment
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Comment by Jack/dt on October 22, 2009 at 12:10pm
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Lutan1:
I can see where CIS/PTS counseling would be in order as well as any followup with regards to persistent or continuing physical and or emotional complaints, at no cost to the firefighters. But I fail to see how any firefighter could or would be allowed to sue for damages as a result of what they saw. Should a firefighter be incapacitated to the extent that he could no longer do his job then that seems like a medical issue and early retirement.
To claim damages as a result of exposure to tragic circumstances (which is pretty much the definition of a firefighter) does seem to me to be an absurdity. While the scale may have been greater how different really was it compared to a house fire in terms of loss of life, suffering and gruesomeness?
No one (hopefully) signs up to see such horrible things but they ARE a part of the job. I know, I've seen it. And while some may be able to take on the physical component of the job, they may lack the ability to deal with it emotionally. How does a law suit for damages erase the emotional turmoil that some experience? Money ceases their nightmares?
I agree that emotional stress shouldn't be ignored and most departments activate CISM teams to work with responders in large or horrific incidents. I don't think these things are being swept under the rug. But even if there was no CISM available at the time of the NM pipeline explosion that shouldn't be an excuse to sue.
While the occurrence may have been a direct result of the lack of maintenance on the part of the company, how is that different from most of what we see? Accidents, fires, collapse all tend to result from human error or incompetence. And often times truly innocent people become victims, through no fault of their own. If the job were easy everyone would be doing it.
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Comment by Capt.Alex Arnold on October 22, 2009 at 12:01pm
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I was reading about this case the other day. I think it will be very interesting. I am wondering if some kind of Critical Incident Stress Debriefing took place. I have personally known and seen a great responder quit because of a horrific accident scene. A true CISD never took place. A lot of the same mentality took place after that scene. It was the admins. feelings that, " Hey it's part of the job. toughen up" and so on.
Now I am personally not a big huggy-huggy we need to understand each others feelings kinda guy. I do recognize though that it is my duty has an officer to keep up an eye on my crew. If it is a bad scene I sit down and talk to them. I have no formal Phd on handling these issues, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn one time (just kidding). But I do have contacts in my network to assist in handling theses issues when they arise.
Yeah, it is going to be very interesting to see this play out in New Mexico. You are very right Luke, this has the potential to change how this service handles those "bad calls". If an agency is doing it old school (toughen up kid) then this may open a big ole can of crap.
Be safe and learn something new today.
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Comment by blair4630 on October 22, 2009 at 12:01pm
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I read the story, and read the responses as well. I'd have to say that I think it is over the top if these individual firefighters are suing for 6 figures apiece or something similar. Really, I personally wouldn't be suing at all.
We all know what we're getting into when we sign up for work in emergency services. If I sued for every time I saw something horrible, Bill Gates wouldn't have anything on me. For that matter, this website would be filled with muli-billion aires. This is emergency services. We respond to emergencies. Emergencies are always bad things, often involving people, sometimes involving tragedy. That's why most of us do it...because we want to spend a career helping our fellow citizens.
If they need counceling, then they should get counceling, and it should be provided by either the department, or maybe the gas company. I just wonder how much the lawyers of the responders are suing for. I'd imagine it's probably alot more than the average 80-120 dollars a month per person counceling usually costs, alot more.
I didn't see anywhere what they were suing for, but I can't imagine lawyers being involved if all they were asking for was the cost of covering counceling.
If this comes down to the typical American lawsuit involving 6 or 7 figures per complaintant, then I want my million bucks to, I've seen dead kids and families too. I'd be willing to bet almost all of us here have. Let's all sue someone, it's the American way.
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