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Comment by FETC on May 4, 2009 at 10:01pm

My point was that today's toxins will kill a firefighter just a fast as a non-protected civilian; the only difference is the firefighter probably will die with an extendable hose attached to his mask. The days of training to run out of air and then stuff the low pressure hose in your coat are over. Our gear is contaminated before you would pull this hose out of your pocket. As Ben and Oldman stated they make plug in cartridges to attempt to filter the toxins, key word attempt. How about training the firefighter to not run out of air period. The tactic of sharing a mask in lethal concentrations of HCN and all the other toxic gases are only going to afford two deaths if they are of any distance from an exit, therefore the technique is not taught anymore either. Buddy breathing on a positive pressure lifeline from pack to pack, yes absolutely works.

Times have changed, gases and toxins have changed, the SCBA manufacturers even changed designs, hence no more negative pressure "demand" BA's, no low pressure elephant trunks, added advanced features for firefighters to equalize or buddy breathe or direct connect fittings but training to breath deadly gases filtered or "lack of filtration" through your turnout coat is going backwards in my opinion.

Comment by James on May 4, 2009 at 1:52pm

Newbie Here,

I am the manufacturer of the Mayday Air products. I am here to answer the questions here on the site to the best of my ability.

It seems Ben has the bulk of the questions, so I'll address them the best I can.

Firefighters can carry this any way they see fit. It's up to them to determine the most advantageous placement as well as keeping it from collecting lint etc.. I could certainly provide a pouch, but it's one more component you would need to deal with as you try and implement the device should you need it. The inclusion of a pouch would add to the overall cost.

The whole goal in this was to provide the FF with an opportunity to keep the face piece on and still maintain a seal as he deployed the hose towards the air source. Many FF's have lengths of tubing they carry, but it requires two hands if they try and keep the face piece on. One to hold the hose in the side of the mask and keep the seal and the other to direct the hose towards the air source.

Retrieval of the device with a gloved hand shouldn't pose too much difficulty unless you have it in a pocket w/ several other items. A dedicated area would make the most sense. Your profile indicates a background in training. Almost everything we do requires training and supplemental training throughout our careers. This product is no different. Practice retrieving it w/ a gloved hand and attaching it over and over again until proficient. The product mates with the MMR on the inlet of the face piece. It isn't used in tandem with filter canisters or the like.

In summary, and as mentioned on the site, this is a product that is to be implemented when you are out of options. It's low-profile and inexpensive where the average guy could afford it. The hope in all of this is if a FF gets lost and separated from his crew he can make it to an exterior wall and find an exit. If not, perhaps a window he can reach with the attached hose or worse case scenario insert into his bunker coat to breathe what ever air might remain.

Filter canisters are available. They list for $250, they are the size of an oil filter, have a shelf life of 5-years and require you to tear open a pouch and remove tabs. The bottom line is that I wanted something simple and inexpensive that was actually designed to fit the face piece. The decision is always yours to purchase or not purchase.

Stay Safe all of You!

Comment by CVFD on May 4, 2009 at 1:27pm

I would think this one would be better, it actually filters the smoke. The May 2008 Fire Engineering has an article about it.
http://www.lastchancefilter.com/

Comment by Ben Waller on May 3, 2009 at 11:16pm

Don, A lot of fire service products sound like a good idea but really don't work out all that well. Before I spent the $25, I'd make sure that I wasn't wasting the money on a false sense of security.
I'd also spend the time doing what my department does...teaching the firefighters to use the Rule of 3's for air management, and that if you're in a large enclosed structure fire when your low air alarm sounds, you're in trouble. A hose that won't reach the exterior of a big box store, a warehouse, or other large, enclosed structure isn't going to help you at all. A filter cannister might possibly help you where a hose that snaps into your mask might not.

Comment by Don on May 3, 2009 at 8:56pm

Ben, I would ask those questions to the company. I just thought it sounded like a good idea for the price. I happily spent the $25 for the peace of mind that I would have something if ever needed. But if you get answers, can you please post what they said. Thanks.

Comment by Oldman on May 3, 2009 at 2:57pm

"This product does not keep you from inhaling smoke or other fire gases".

Their descriptions are vague, but it appears to be nothing more than a modern day "Elephant Trunk" that I used 20 years ago. We were taught back then if we ran out of air, to disconnect the hose and put it in your coat.

My department utilizes a cartridge type which does filter smoke and other gasses and also has verifiable medical test results to back it up. Again, it is ONLY for emergency egress after becoming trapped or disoriented. We have told our people that if they deploy it because they stayed in too long and ran themselves out of air, to be prepared to have their Division C kicked.

But I have an open mind. I too wouldn't mind seeing more data.

Comment by Ben Waller on May 3, 2009 at 1:53pm

I have a few questions about this device...

1) How is it carried for the 99.9% of the responses for which it isn't needed?
2) How are you supposed to access it and deploy it while wearing full turnout gear and those bulky, no-dexterity fire gloves (oven mitts)?
3) Does the device come in an airtight pouch, or is the inside of the tube going to collect dirt, soot, and other crap from every other call we go on where we don't use it?
4) Is the device compatible with the filter cannisters that some SCBA manufacturer's make to convert a SCBA to a filter respirator...also as a last ditch measure?
5) If the answer to #4 is "no", then which one is a better choice?

I have some additional questions, but those will do for starters.

Comment by Don on May 3, 2009 at 12:21am

See the way I look at it....like the website says "last ditch effort". I'm not too worried about the exposure time. If it gives me an extra 5 minutes to get the hell out of somewhere, I think its worth the $25. I just wanted to inform fellow firefighters about it, seeing that it is so inexpensive. I just placed an order for an MSA piece. Hopefully I will never be in that situation, but I now have the peace of mind that I have one more tool that just might help me.

Comment by FETC on May 2, 2009 at 8:41pm

Yes Ben that would be the one. I would like to see some test results as Charles suggested of approximate exposure time with the toxins of today and what they describe on their website as how to use the product when almost out of air.

Comment by Ben Waller on May 2, 2009 at 7:59pm

FETC - This disclaimer? "The company fully acknowledges that these products are not a "Save All". These products were designed to be used as a "last-ditch-effort" at saving the life of the firefighter when no other option exists. They should never be used as a substitute for a properly functioning SCBA."

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