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Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on June 22, 2009 at 11:58am

Before anyone can jump on it, "carnival-like" was a poor choice of words. The point I was trying to make is that some departments will provide what they think is a fitting fun eral, but misses in the end because they didn't consult with their state organization who provides the strict protocols for such an occasion. It's becomes more of a "parade" than a "procession".
Which is why we should review information on the subject by people like Tiger.
Welcome to the Nation, Chief.
TCSS.
Art

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on June 22, 2009 at 10:09am

The fact that we are arguing about how best to bury our brothers and sisters is testament to the fact that we have a long ways to go towards "prevention" measures.
I have been witness for many years to how some departments have so much invested in their funeral practices that they trample the rights of the aggrieved family in the process, in my opinion. They want the aggrieved family to somehow feel better because of outpouring of "tradition" of the fire department. It borders on an almost carnival-like display that in no way serves to bridge the loss for his immediate family and help the healing process, in my opinion.
And that is why I feel that Tiger's suggestions with regards to funeral practices is valuable information. It should be considered but by no means forced upon those who have had a death of one of their own.
And the "magnitude" of the ceremony should never be measured by the number of commendations, medals, stripes, friends, VIPs, or books written by the deceased firefighter. That is wrong on many levels. And Tiger did a yeoman's job of describing it.
So that I am clear, I am in no way denigrating the honors given our fallen firefighters. I am against intruding upon the immediate family's deeply personal feelings of grief with a display of ceremony that might not be their wishes. We should do what they want at the time of the funeral. If the fire department wants to go beyond that, they can do it at another place at another time.
IMHO.
TCSS.
Art

Comment by Tiger Schmittendorf on June 22, 2009 at 8:01am

Hello Chief -

Thanks for your comments.

First, if you are referring to my blog: http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/889755:BlogPost:136383 on Fire Service Funeral Practices, it would be helpful if you had left a comment on my blog instead of starting your own as a response to mine. I understand and appreciate that you are new to FirefighterNation but I never would have found this had someone not brought it to my attention.

As for your comments, I believe you may have misunderstood the intent of my blog. You repeatedly refer back to the practice of carrying the casket on the fire engine and seem to think that I am somehow against it. If that's what you took away from my article, I strongly urge you to re-read it. You have clearly missed the point.

I have no objection to a firefighter's casket being carried on the back of the engine - or any other practice for that matter - as appropriate. I simply ask that we consider the family's wishes first, foremost and always and that we establish standards for these practices within our own departments, counties, regions and states or further - as appropriate.

I wholeheartedly disagree that the means and levels of respect demonstrated should be different depending on "what the loved one did for the agency/jurisdiction" or should be different for what you describe as "a mediocre or poor firefighter at best." Being subjective about how we treat each other in life and in death only opens the door for hurt feelings and bad blood.

Who will determine how you and your family will be treated at your passing? Will it be based on your long standing record in the fire service or will it be based on “What have you done for us lately?” Establishing baselines for these practices eliminates much of the doubt and clearly communicates expectations for how each situation can be addressed.

When a recruit raises their right hand to take the same oath that you and I have taken, I feel that they are immediately entitled to a certain level of respect, again, both in life and in death. From there on though, it does matter as to how we treat the circumstances under which they leave our service.

The "Recommended Fire Service Funeral Practices" document that I believe you're referring to is simply that - a recommendation, a suggestion. In no way am I advocating that these practices must be implemented or enforced in your department or anywhere else. It is simply a framework from which to open the discussion and yes, to standardize how we will treat our members in each situation.

To abuse or even blur the lines between a line-of-duty death and a non-line of duty death is a disservice to those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in service to their communities. There simply is no comparison. There are other fire service leaders who feel strongly about this as well: http://community.fireengineering.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1219672%...

And as for your comment: "If a dept. in Louisiana or Maine, or Washington does something different, I believe no one has the right to right an article or blog and blast them. You are not in their shoes." - I am not singling out anyone and I am certainly not blasting anyone. To the contrary, my goal is to prevent any firefighter or their family from being treated unfairly in life and in death. To not have this discussion is an insult to those who have gone before us.

And Sir, please don't ever question my right to write an article or blog that opens honest and mature dialogue on a subject that will eventually affect each and every one of us. I would no sooner ask you to reserve your comments.

If you'd like to continue this conversation, please do so at the original blog page. I'll be copying these comments there for those who are interested in following these important discussions.

I too respect your opinion. Thanks for your consideration.

Stay safe. Train often.