Brotherhood - Who are we kidding?

I find it fascinating as I search through the various discussion threads at the number of threads that find themselves debating passionately who is better paid or volunteer. We have always hung our hat in the fire service on the fact that we "are all brothers", "you go, we go", etc., etc. Ironically, the brotherhood term gets thrown around the most when one of us makes that ultimate sacrifice doing what we do. I say ironically, because I have unfortunately been very close to the action for three separate firefighter line of duty deaths. We always manage to stand up in public and loudly proclaim we are all brothers and that we are there to support our fallen commrade. Then when it is all over, we turn around and fight over who is better paid or volunteer.

Interestingly enough, the three line of duty deaths were two career firefighters and one volunteer, all three from different agencies, all three taken much too early, and all three left loved ones behind wondering how they were going to continue. It was no more tragic for one than the other, it was no more devastating to the agency that lost the firefighter than another, and it was no less heartwrenching for the community they served than the other.

I am not placing myself on pedestal saying I have never been caught up in the healthy debates of paid vs. volunteer. In fact, just the opposite, I am rather disappointed in myself that I have allowed myself to get sucked into those arguments, to get my temper steamed when someone says a paid firefighter has more experience or a volunteer is more dedicated.

So I ask the question (confident that I have made some folks mad), are we really a brotherhood, or do we just play one on tv?

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Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on April 5, 2009 at 1:54pm: If you question the existence of brotherhood; at least be thankful that it exists within the walls of your fire department.
I believe that we have a brotherhood/sisterhood. It depends on the day, date and time and the current hot topic of the news day.
You all getting tired of the P vs. V discussions? We can stop it by simply NOT prefacing what we say with volunteer, career, paid, unpaid, union. Then, we have to filter the riff raff who come into a discussion 3 months late like they just had an epiphany and resurrect the ugliness all over again.
I have written blogs on the subject, but only in response to a previous debate.
As I said, we can stop it by taking the words out of our lexicon.
Instead of introducing yourself with "I'm a volunteer firefighter" you simply say "I'm a firefighter".
We have to nip the discussions in the bud, but that's tough, because there are some out there who have to look at the train wreck.
There is a brotherhood, but like most large families, it is somewhat dysfunctional and "Dad" is never around.
TCSS.Art

Comment by Troy Bass on April 4, 2009 at 7:19pm: Fire burns the same if you are paid or volunteer. We ALL Need to Train and All need to help each other so we don't have needless deaths or injuries from the diffrent situations that we as firefighters get into. It still boils down to being SAFE!

Comment by Allen Wahlstrom on April 3, 2009 at 6:15pm: Philly is my brother, but I still give him a rash of crap over the Eagles. You can go back and read my posts on this issue and I think the brotherhood is alive and well. Does that mean we arent going to fight about things...not a chance.

The biggest issue we all have is funding, and that is from the paid side as well. Throw in training issues and we are all in the same boat. That some of us are fortunate enough to get a check ( I wasn't very happy about having to stay over this morning on my birthday, with a sick kid at home and a wife with no pay when she isn't at work...you get the picture)

The grass isn't always greener and snipes like "volunteers do it for the right reason" or "whackers are a bunch of ate up rednecks" don't exactly promote harmony in our dysfunctional family...

TCSS
Wally

Comment by Scott on April 3, 2009 at 6:03pm: It's unfortunate that some people feel being paid makes them a better firefighter." That swings both ways.
I have been on both sides of the vollie/career fence as well. While you are correct there are "paid" guys that it's just a paycheck, there are vollies that are in it for the "social club" part of the deal.
Neither are not good for the fire service and lets leave it at that.

Comment by Paul Montpetit on April 3, 2009 at 5:26pm: It might help "cool" the waters if people such as yourself quit bringing this subject here for discussion....I for one refuse to make any further comments.....we all do what needs to be done......PERIOD......Paul

Comment by EYFD5917 on April 3, 2009 at 4:34pm: In My opinion,We do the job for the same reasons.Being a "paid-on-call Volunteer",and living next door to a paid full time Firefighter,We share the same stories.The job is the same,regardless of the compensation,We are here to help.The term "Brotherhood" would elude to a male dominance,but,I am proud to say,I have served with many of both genders in the "union" of service.

Comment by Captain Kevin C. Ross on April 3, 2009 at 2:50pm: I believe we are a brotherhood, despite the arguement of VOLUNTEER vs PAID, when the crap hits the fan we all stand up for each other, and are right there to lend a hand. There is no better picture of that then in the days following 9/11, there were volunteer & paid working shoulder to shoulder and no one asked if you got a paycheck or not, likewise a few years ago a Kenmore, NY A Firefighter died in the line of duty, and on every corner of the percession route was A Buffalo Fire Truck with the Firefighters standing at attention and saluting A Brother Firefighter and no one cared if he got a paycheck or not. So I answer yes there is a BROTHERHOOD that I pray will all live to argue another day over who is better VOLUNTEER or PAID! STAY SAFE ALL OF MY BROTHERS! Captain Kevin C. Ross Pembroke, NY Fire Department

Comment by PA Firefighter on April 3, 2009 at 1:31pm: It's unfortunate that some people feel being paid makes them a better firefighter. I worked on both sides paid and volunteer. Both sides have good and bad people. To some of the paid people it is just a paycheck. A firefighter is a firefighter it doesn't matter if you get paid or not.

Comment by engine 15 on April 3, 2009 at 12:17pm: Any one who has a blood brother knows, in public you will fight for each other till death. When you get home you fight with each other till death. In communities where full timers respond with vollies. it is the same, or where you have stations that at one time were seperate and now together due to consolidation.
It is not that we dont get along with each other, but we dont like the difference in how the departments are ran. While one chief,or officer may encourage unity and equality, another will point out weakness, and flaws. If as chiefs and officers we show this kind of weakness to our subordinates they see this as the proper way to behave, and they will do it. Dont ge me wrong, I have done my share of brother bashing to brothers inside and outside of my own station. I know how it can hurt a relationship between brothers and within an orginazation.
I guess what my point is while we do bash one another, when it comes down to it we show up, put our diiferences aside, and do our jobs to the best o our training. And at the end of incident we go back to the station and talk about all the good, and bad things that happened while we put our equipment back in service. Thats BROTHERHOOD.

Comment by Jake Fireman on April 3, 2009 at 11:55am: Drew
First and formost...a brotherhood we are. I agree with parts of what everyone has said in their responses. I don't know you and I have never worked with you or your department. I do however feel a "kinship" to you. Do I always agree. Nope. Did I always agree with my brothers growing up. Nope. Do I appreciate what you say. YES. Do I agree with you on points. YES. Do we do the same job? Not exactly. Are you my brother. YES!
Sometimes people here on FFN read too much into a topic and make it career v. vollie when that was not the intent. I had that happen to me. My subject was hi-jacked...then it was pointed out to me that I used the title "IAFF vs. Vollies" ....it was not as a comparrison of who was better, it was finding out if vollies have any type of labor organization....but some made it a fight. It has happened to 2 or 3 threads in as many days. The job is the same...but different you know???

As far as better or worse...I look at that like when I was in the military. I was a Marine. We always downtalked the army, navy and air force, as they did to us. Would I want them there in that type of fight? HE** YES. Would I stand up for them against "outsiders" HE** YES. Were they my brothers...HE** Freaking YES! Would I let them always know that.....lol..nope!