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Comment by Dan Walton on August 20, 2010 at 9:12pm

dose anyone have any good firefighter text message ringtones they can send me

Comment by Andrew Pollack on August 4, 2009 at 8:28pm

Thanks @lutan1. Knowing that no matter how well I'm able to write the tone detection software, audio relay software, and pbx side voice activated recording stuff, I still don't control large parts of the delivery system is exactly why I picked the name "Second" signal. No matter how useful it is, it can never replace real time local radio traffic for timeliness and high availability. Services like this make a fantastic overlay and even backup method of communication, but are not on par for primary response for exactly the reasons raised here.

Comment by lutan1 on August 4, 2009 at 5:07pm

Thanks Andrew for a VERY insightful response.

I've got no issue with a sales pitch, provided an attempt is made to answer questions raised in an open public way as you've done. Thanks heaps for the clarification...

Comment by Andrew Pollack on August 4, 2009 at 10:56am

Hi all --
A "Press Watch" agent picked this up, forgive me for jumping in.

I am the guy who created and runs Second Signal, and am also a Lt. in a call responder department. I won't make this a sales pitch, but will try to address a couple of the comments I've seen here around text message delays a phone issues.

The following applies to pretty much any service using SMS text messages for sending notices, not just mine, but anyone's. I'd love to claim mine is "better" but by nature there are challenges we all face.

In the case of Second Signal, I can show by log file that we hand off notices to the cell phone providers within 22 seconds of getting the flag that a tone has gone out (we detect tones automatically). In "MOST" cases, the text message arrives at the cell phones within seconds of that, sometimes before the minitor pagers are done beeping. HOWEVER, in some cases it takes much longer. I've had reports of 20 minutes or even a couple of hours. When I get these reports, I go to the logs and can show handing off the message to the carrier, but then I have to ask the department or firefighter to complain to the carrier as I have no influence there. It happens in something like one in a thousand messages, but it does happen.

What causes the delayed sms delivery is usually:
a) Carrier systems refusing the initial delivery of the message to them, so the servers wait 10-15 minutes then resend. That can happen when carriers are overwhelmed, or just badly configured.
b) poor carrier delivery systems or cell reception in an area

There is no "best" carrier, as it seems to be regional. I have the least trouble with Verizon in most areas, but in some areas they're the worst. Usually the firefighters know which is the best in their area.

There --ARE-- ways to put sms messages on the wire more directly. These, however, cost a good bit more for the provider (me in the case of second signal). For Second Signal, it would raise the cost of service by at least 50% to use these kinds of services and not guarantee better response. The problem isn't bad enough that any departments I work with are interested in seeing me do it, so I have not.

As to telephone failures, I can only speak to what I do with Second Signal to avoid this. We have redundant PBX systems in different cities, and capacity to spare on each. Also, while each department has its own phone number, if the provider we use for phone numbers ever has an issue we can very quickly issue a replacement number or toll free number from another provider. We maintain a relationship with more than one provider for exactly this purpose. The dial in number is included on each outgoing SMS so if there is ever a problem we can address it almost immediately. So far, we've only had one downtime issue and it lasted 36 hours when the data center in texas we use blew up (they had a conduit explosion that blew their power distribution room walls out several feet, severing all the power connections to 4000 severs in racks). Since then we have our hot fail over in a different city. If both cities go out at once, we assume there are basic food and shelter issues to worry about and our service is lower priority at that point.

I know I have some competitors who use this site - and I wish them well. I believe there are different kinds of notification services to match different needs, and it isn't a "zero-sum" game. Other services are good for the market and increase awareness and choice. So far, I don't see it as direct competition to Second Signal because what we do is so much more than text messaging. To me, the text messaging itself is around 1/10th the cost of what I'm doing. The ability to call a local telephone number and "catch up" to all the radio traffic since the tone went out (or to previous calls using the touch tones) is the real value.

Again, each service addresses a different kind of need. Second Signal is designed to help call responders who live or work where they can't always use the Minitor, and need to know not just that a call went out, but need to listen to enough traffic to know there's a serious incident before they decide if they can leave work. In my experience, few people can leave work 3 times a week for false alarms or burnt food, but almost every boss will let firefighters leave work a few times a year for a working structure fire. My system is designed to help people know which is which so they can make the decision.

I hope this addresses some of the questions.

Comment by Dustin J. Millis on August 4, 2009 at 1:14am

I cant offer help in providing a company that does this, we do recieve txt alerts on our cell's however, its done via county dispatch. I'm not sure how/who they use to do this.

I can comment on some of the concerns that were raised earlier... I have never had any extreme delay in between the pager going off and getting the txt msg on my phone... in fact, a few nights ago; i got the txt on my phone before my pager went off. Usually its around 30 seconds to a minute after the pager goes off that I get the txt. That generally works nicely because I used to always listen to the entire page and write down the address before leaving for the station. Now I can leave, listen to the page on the way in and by the time I am there, my phone has gotten the txt and I can just read it off of there.

I can also say that there has been a few times when my phone did not get the txt msg at all. Again, this has only happened a few times and I never really found out any reason for it not to get the txt. Of course, that is why it is only used as a secondary/backup system for our pagers.

Comment by Michael on August 2, 2009 at 9:45am

Thanks everyone for your comments keep them comin, I have checked out second signal but its 100.00 a month and i don't want to pay for anything its just for when im at work where my pager will not receive calls.

Comment by lutan1 on August 1, 2009 at 7:23pm

Edgeworth, how about answer soem of the concerns that have been raised by myself and others instead of the sales pitch?

Are there issues with the phone systems falling over in high demand? What has been done to overcome this? What about delays in getting messages, etc

Comment by Edgeworth Kneszewski on August 1, 2009 at 6:19pm

Micheal,

My company specializes in interoperability and bringing the use of cellphones and 2-way radios together as a secondary method of communicating. I would be happy to go over how all of this works, off list. feel free to contact me at ed@mysitecast.com or call our office 1-800-567-0535 ext. 600. I will post more info for everyone to read, at a later time as I"m about to head out the door right now. Hope we can be of some assistance to you!

Comment by blair4630 on July 31, 2009 at 2:30pm

In our county we can have our chief register our number into some program with the dispatch center, and we get our dispatches over our cell phones then. I have no idea in the world what system the dispatch center uses, though.

Comment by Jay Cates on July 31, 2009 at 6:11am

I do agree during a major disaster relying on the cells would not be a good idea. My department has started using a service called SecondSignal. This service is great for department who might be in areas that may not have good radio reception on pagers.http://www.secondsignal.com

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