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Comment by Mick Mayers on October 8, 2008 at 10:11am

That's the thing - I don't think standardizing things does away with the volunteer fire service, which serves much of our nation. I think there's a difference between expectations and in some cases, standards are being used to further an agenda rather than to do what they are designed to do - define something and give us measurable objectives to meet that definition. Instead of hiding behind an industry standard, there should be some education as to what the accepted standard of coverage is for a community along with the risk if we choose to meet a lower standard. Elected officials should be held to that standard of coverage; if you were to hand the council a statement saying, "hey, we're okay with three man engine companies and twenty minute response times", I would have them also know that we won't be saving many burning homes because we're not going to commit firefighters inside them with that standard.

Of course, that's not going to go over well with the constituency, but if they are willing to allow it, they shouldn't be screaming when their house burns. Our problems are that 1) people don't have a strong need to fund the fire department when they percieve that they won't have a fire (can't happen to me syndrome) and 2) the fire service always seems to find a way to do things with less.

If crime goes up in a neighborhood, you don't see the cops saying, "oh, don't worry about it - we'll just move patrols from over here to cover over there". No, they say, if you want to be safer, you need to add police coverage. Period. We try to make something work.

Long story short - standards should be a means of defining things so most of us can expect and use a certain asset, not as a stick to beat with or a place to hide behind. Fire chiefs should be educating their bosses (politicians and managers) as to WHY the standard exists and as to what will happen if the standard isn't upheld. Just like that traffic light that got erected at that busy intersection after the last fatality, a lot of standards came into being after one death or large-loss incident too many. If there's something you don't want in "your backyard", it's a monument on a scorched piece of earth where someone failed to do the right thing.

Comment by Ben Waller on October 8, 2008 at 6:16am

Mick,

I couldn't agree more, with a couple of additions.

We're lucky to be in a department where several of the members sit on state and national standards-development committees. That gives our department a little more insight than the average bear as to how the standards development process works. It also gives us the opportunity to fight for higher standards and to make those standards fit better with the pertinent parts of related standards.

Both of us have a lot of experience with a newly-developed standard becoming simply "the standard". It baffles me that some firefighters don't realize that it is generally better to exceed the standards than to simply meet them. It's also better to set the standards than to follow them.

An example of the minimum standards vs. a real standard is the Fundamentals of Firefighting (formerly OSHA FIrefighter) course that is approximately half of Firefighter I. I recently heard a fire chief state that he has a firefighter that can't pass the Fundamentals course, but is the "best firefighter I've got." My jaw still hurts from dropping to the table when I heard that one. Why would anyone take the risk of using an uncertified firefighter inside a burning building when that firefighter can't pass a standard that's not anywhere near the NFPA standard is beyond me.

As for the terminology issue, I've done a little gentle chiding of those who want to simply call an Air Tanker a "Tanker", but who are from a part of the country whose mutal aid definitions don't include the term "ambulance". It's a "Medic" or an "Aid" in Seattle, a "Rescue Ambulance" in LA CIty, a 'Rescue" in Phoenix, and a "Ambulance" in Portland. There's something more than a little backwards about a system that reserves the term "Tanker" for the 30 or 40 aircraft that drop water from the air, ignores the thousands of ground based "Tankers" that pre-dated the air tanker business, and ignores thousands of ambulances.

It's time for the dog to take over wagging the tail.

Woof.

Comment by Jenny Holderby on October 7, 2008 at 9:48pm

Mick,
Now I get where you are going with this. And I do agree. If I want a tanker, "I" expect that it is a truck with water and equipment to move water. However, I know that a tanker from another department may not have 1,800 to 2,000 gal of water and a 1200gpm on board pump as well as portable dump tanks, quick dump valves, a portable pump, jet syphon and hard suction hose just because ours does.

When I want a HAZMAT TECH I expect that person to be a qualified technician to mitigate a hazardous materials incident. When I want an engineer, I assume that the person behind the wheel of an apparatus knows what his truck is capable of doing, of being capable of making it do that & where the equipment is & how to use it. Believe me, that doesn't always happen either.

I definitely am an advocate of standardization but still believe that some of it still follows the "gag @ a gnat & swallow a Cammel" addage.

It baffels me that although we have come up with a National Registery of EMTs that not all states use that as a baseline for training for Emergency Medical Technicians. The point was that when an EMT could pass that test, that they were trained to certian requirements and standards and could operate under them. Yet, even though some states require that an EMT pass the National Registery, they also have to take the "State" test. So why bother with the national registery?

It also confuses me that some states don't require ANY training for a volunteer fire fighter yet others require a 400 hr class that is actually more detailed than most career fire fighters have. I believe that a volunteer fire fighter should have some training at least to the awareness level (what they used to call it) in high angel rescue, confined space rescue, wild land fire fighting, auto extrication, CPR/AED @ least basic first aid if NOT an EMT, and in hazardous materials besides the actual fighting fire. I live in Ohio and although the state has recently required a number of CEUs or training for volunteer fire fighters beyond the 36 hour basic Techinical & Industrial fire fighter training it doesn't mean that all volunteer fire fighters in the state will have the same training. In Ohio there is a level of training called 1st Responder which is technically half the state EMT training. I believe that all fire fighters would benefit from this training along with the basic fire fighter course. THIS is where we DO need a national standard. We need a national guideline on what constitutes a fire fighter, career or volunteer. We also need a standard on what a FIRE DEPARTMENT is: How many people, what type of apparatus, what type of training each of them should have to be considered a fire department should be @ least "somewhat" the same in any state in the nation.

I get irritated with fire fighters who tell me that they don't have to follow standards because they are a private fire company or that they can't possibly meet NFPA standards so they don't try.

Sometimes I "forget" that since I have been a fire fighter for almost 25 yrs in a somewhat small area and have had the benefit of some very good local and regional training opportunities as well as having attended the National Fire Academy that not everyone has had the same type of training & exposure to fire sciences as I have. I work in an academic library. I love doing research & reading anything I can find on all kinds of Emergency Service issues.

The internet has become an invaluable tool for fire fighters in the past few years as well. THIS is a great place to talk about any number of topics that pertain to all of us. It is a great way to get training that you might not otherwise be able to benefit from.

There are several things we should all be able to take advantage of that are basic & free. I think everyone should take the NIMS classes @ least 100 & 200. Everyone who has internet capability should take advantage of the distance learning classes from the National Fire Academy and every training officer should show his members the Fire Fighter Life Safety Initatives. The 3 volume DVD set is FREE from the Department of Homeland Security, the National Fallen Fire Fighters Foundation & Fireman's Fund Insurance Company. Those can be ordered @ www.everyonegoehome.com.

Jen

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