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Comment by Jack/dt on November 5, 2009 at 2:21pm

You should move this topic over to the forum side, where the ones that need to think about this are looking. You know, maybe title it "what color (lights, engine, ppe, helmet) do you prefer. That usually gets 'em lathered up.

Comment by Jack/dt on November 3, 2009 at 10:16am

When someone, anyone, sees training as an unfair, impractical imposition on "volunteers" then you might as well prepare for your first/next LODD.

Where is it written that just because someone has been a volunteer for years that there is nothing new for them to learn? Have they really learned it all? Have they learned anything at all?

If the person writing the quoted comments came from a department that runs 1000+ fire calls every year and personally makes a significant percentage of them then one could at least presume that that person's skill set are up to date, maybe. But for the average VFD I'm betting that they run a lot less calls, see few if any fire calls on a yearly basis and, as Capt 723 points out, the ones they do see are already fully gone. But what about the one that is still in the incipient stage?

Nothing worse than going in and finding out you are totally unprepared for the job. Or that your SCBA is not working or working properly. Or that you've made the wrong decision(s).

Training is, in my opinion, the one thing that most distinguishes the amateur from the professional. Professionals train to stay sharp, increase their skills, learn new techniques, methods, tactics and tools and understand that there is no such thing as too much training. It is the amateur that thinks that too much is too much.

But where does the problem lay? Can you really blame the individual firefighter? In my opinion, no. You have to lay the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of the Chief of Department. If the person wearing the white hat and all the bugles is really nothing more than the head of the social club then it stands to follow that he will run the department as a social club.

But then again, if a department 'elects' its chief then you got what you voted for. So maybe it's time for the state to step up and increase/enforce the requirements for volunteer fire departments. Unless you have people lobbying for you at the state level that too many requirements are unfair to impose on 'volunteers.'

I guess the bottom line is that if you can't do the time, you can't be on line. If training is "too hard" or you don't "have the time" then maybe you need to re-think your priorities. If you can't or won't train then you shouldn't be a firefighter. What fire departments need are capable, qualified, well trained firefighters, not LODD candidates.

Don't get mad, get better.
Stay safe-ish.

Comment by Alan Shaw on November 2, 2009 at 7:42pm

We will have to endure far too many more LODD's before this attitude changes. Because this attitude it one that for a large part we encourage in our new members. Anytime we set a minimum and then train for that minimum, we are in fact telling people there is no need to exceed that minimum.

Not being from that state, I am basing this on reading the article (on another fire related site) and the replies here. There is a 24 hour requirement, yet some are not meeting it. But there is also an 8 hour requirement which seems to count towards the 24, but be used as an alternative minimum by some departments. Great, get your 8, get your 24, double that to 48 if you want, it still isn't enough.

We need to stop training because we need to and train because we want to. Train because it will make us better at what we do, no matter how good a starting point we have. Train because it will help us stay safe and return home to our families. Train because there is something new and interesting we want to know more about. Train because there is a past topic you don't remember as much about as you would like. However, do not rain because someone else says you have to train for a certain number of hours, because meeting that requirement just isn't enough.

Comment by Rusty Mancini on November 2, 2009 at 5:56pm

This continues to be a problem through out the country. Big Al B. recently was giving an interview and stated fire has change, it burns faster and hotter than it ever has, due to the materials in our world today! If you don't keep up with the changes and do the required training, your putting everyone at risk.

Some folks are still stuck in the past, along with a fast pace social lifestyle and, use every excuse not to keeping one self in tune with training and the changes. Train----Train and Train some more! Be Safe!

Comment by Paul Montpetit on November 2, 2009 at 4:51pm

Don't forget 8 hours of that mandatory training is the annual OSHA training....that leaves only 16 hours left for the year....we get that every month and we are a small rural Department.....By the way...if you don't attend OSHA training...annual fit test and your physical you don't attend ANY Fire Department function or ANY calls at all (EMS or Fire).....Stay safe...Keep the Faith and train as though your life depends on it....because it does.....Paul

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on November 2, 2009 at 2:21pm

Yeah; I read this over on your blog this morning, but for some reason, I am having problems posting comments there. When I hit the Post as Guest button, the screen goes black and my comment doesn't get posted.
As a fellow Illinoian, I am keenly aware of the excellent training opportunities offered through our Fire Service Institute.
I also struggle with the weak, insolent excuses offered up by those who don't want to commit to the requirements necessary to stay ahead of the profession.
I went so far as to write this some years ago in response: http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/so-you-dont-have-th...
Though it's not very scientific, it gets my point across.
Glad I'm not the only one.
Art