Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Wendy Neumeyer on January 7, 2008 at 8:38pm

I don't know whether it stems from the fact I am female and my crew is usually all male, a lack of respect or what...but to be succint, my biggest problem is insubordination. I try to teach by example; refrain from interfering with the way a job is done unless there is a safety issue or efficiency problems; work with the individual personalities as best I am able...but there always seems to be somebody who has a problem with taking direction; staying in communication; staying on task...and when I discuss it with them it turns into a confrontation. I am not a confrontational person, but perhaps there is something about my character at the source. I was hoping perhaps by reading responses to this query I might gain some insight.

Permalink Reply by Sean McLaughlin on January 10, 2008 at 6:12pm

I'm not a boss but I work on a twenty man hand crew. It sounds to me like your boys have a problem with authority. They need to realize that you are the boss, and you're responsible for their safety and actions. Being on a hand crew I deal with 20 different personalities every day. Sure we all have our bad days, and we may joke around. But we know that when the Supt. or the Captain is talking it's time to shut up and listen. You may just need to crack the whip on them right off the bat. Lay down the law at the beginning of the season, and once they understand you're the boss you can lighten up a little. Just remind them that everything they do is a reflection of you.

Permalink Reply by Wendy Neumeyer on January 10, 2008 at 7:58pm

I guess enforcing discipline may be an area I am weak in. I have in the past been more of a "three strikes" kind of person...you know, let them make a mistake or two and discuss it, but not be really assertive until it shows that it's a behavior pattern. I will definitely keep that in mind, thank you.

Permalink Reply by John Carder on February 8, 2008 at 1:57pm

Wendy,

I'll probably get hammered for making sweeping generalizations, but here goes:

One of the biggest differences between guys and gals is that guys tend to push limits, in lots of ways. One of the biggest ways is that they often insult each other. To them, it's a way of forming a bond. I've often seen women firefighters arrive in that mix, and totally misunderstand. Believe it or not, when somebody insults you, it's often intended as recognition and an invitation to join in. When you add the issue of rank, it gets a lot more complicated, fast.

Sean has the right idea. Initially, it's important to establish the ground rules. As I said, guys push limits, especially the types of guys who become wildland firefighters. Like a teenage boy, they will test the limits, to see what they can get away with. I think it's written into our Y chromosomes.

It's been my experience that women tend to take things much more personally. They don't see a guy trying to test himself and the rules. They see someone criticizing them, and they consider the actions not as a test of limits but as an attack on them, via their authority.

If you treat people well, as you'd like to be treated, but stay firm and consistent, that will build respect. Trying to be nice, and giving a second chance lessens your ability to gain respect from your crew. It's viewed as a sign of weakness. Sure, someone can earn a "pass". We're human and we all make mistakes. Make sure they've demonstrated their abiliity, effort and responsibility FIRST, before you let them get away with something (give them a pass). They have to earn it. And try not to confuse true insubordination (disobeying orders) with verbal jockeying.

I've had about a dozen Rottweilers over the last 30 years, and the behavior can be very similar. Firefighters tend to be "alpha males". So they're constantly testing themselves and each other. They respect authority, and pounce on fear and weakness. The pecking order is well defined. That "testing the limits" helps to define the pecking order. I hope that makes sense, and helps you.

Permalink Reply by Sean McLaughlin on February 8, 2008 at 3:38pm

Very well stated. I totally agree with you.

Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on February 16, 2009 at 4:34pm

I usually have problems with some of the newer older firefighters, the guys that are thirty five and up that have just started firefighting. I'm only twenty-five and by default they believe they know more, in some cases they might I'll listen to what they say but if it's wrong they still won't listen. I lost two friends to a forest fire in ninety- nine and just don't want that to happen again.