Offensive vs. Defensive

With the many changes in today's society, we are encountering more and more "new norms" and are continually being asked to do more with less. With this in mind, we as officers and senior firefighters need to rethink the factors that lead us to making that offensive or defensive attack.

We need to stay on top of the structures in our areas that are becoming vacant and abandoned due to the current economy. This number is increasing on a daily basis with homeowners not being able to stay current on their payments and the homes going into foreclosure.

Life safety still needs to be our first priority when making the offensive vs. defensive decision. If upon entering a structure, the entry team is “greeted/faced” with a “hoarding” situation then the initial game plan needs to be readdressed as the fuel load has now increased exponentially and the entry team’s safety has now become the top priority.

If we respond to a known vacant structure that is involved then we need to seriously think about taking a defensive stance so as not to risk the safety of our members. Protect the exposures, then surround and drown. Another reason for the defensive stance would be the distinct possibility that vacant structures are prime real estate for meth labs which creates another serious hazard for our members. We as officers have to always keep the risk vs. benefit factor at the forefront when we’re making that offensive vs. defensive decision.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on February 1, 2011 at 8:17am

Have you ever had to respond to a hoarders house? If so how did you handle that situation? We have a gnetleman who is getting up there in years just down the road. His house/property is over run with stuff (lots of stuff) I won't call it garbage because well it may mean something to him, but for me stuff. How do you deal with house fires at a hoarders house or medical calls?

Permalink Reply by Charley Cashen on February 1, 2011 at 8:39am

Patti, I've run a few of these over the years. The latest one involved a fire in the kitchen. We pulled up and the home owner told us we couldn't go in the front door. I didn't understand until we got to the front door and it wouldn't open all the way and our feet never hit the floor. Small fire, thank God, and a lot of smoke. We have an on staff, people, to address these situations. All you can really do is offer social services and see if they have family they are still talking to that might be able to help. They do need to be told what a dangerous situation this creates for firefighters.

Permalink Reply by Tom Williams on February 1, 2011 at 8:44am

I have responded to 1 situation involving a hoarder and it was on a medical response. We had to assist EMS in loading and removing the patient from the house. We had to move a large amount of "junk" just to be able to get them out to the ambulance.

Upon returning back to the station there was discussion on this and we made everyone aware of it. My thoughts were that if we were to respond to this property on a "working" fire that the odds of it being a body recovery were going to be high due to the fuel load. I think it's a tough call for the IC to make. Ultimately we have to protect and keep our members safe. This could ultimately mean doing a defensive attack and then going in after the fire is out to do a body recovery.

Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on February 1, 2011 at 8:52am

One of the things that the guys will do when we return from calls or we are on our way into town is ask what would you do for this place. This would be the biggie on for us because we don't know what stuff he has. What kind of chemicals does he have, does he have any old explosives (with him, very high chance).

Permalink Reply by Charley Cashen on February 1, 2011 at 9:39am

Tom, I understand what you are trying to say but I've heard it all before. If your working policy is to fight fire from the exterior then that is what you train your people to. that level and compliance. You leave out a lot of information just to make your point. Simply the fact that it's a hoarders house shouldn't drive your decision to go defensive. Yes the fire load is there but if heavy involvement exists are you going to make entry in the first place? I don't understand the cartoon either. Is it referring that just the older guys accept and practice complacency? Fire volume and box size are two things I use to determine offensive or defensive. Remember, also command is or should be dynamic. If you decide to make an initial attack defensive doesn't mean that you can't change to offensive once the fire has been knocked down.
My 2 cents

Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on February 1, 2011 at 9:49am

As a probie on my way to a fire what information could I provide to help incoming IC determine if this is going to be offensive or defensive?

Permalink Reply by Tom Williams on February 1, 2011 at 10:33am

Morning Charley,

I agree that it's a hoarders house shouldn't be the primary reason to go defensive. My point is that in this situation the fuel load is much greater and that's going to play a bigger role in how we attack the fire. Me personally, if it's heavy invoplvement in the first place, no I'm going to a defensive stance but I know there are department that would consider an interior attack.

Yea, the cartoon is geared towards some older members that I've encountered over the years that didn't believe in change and having to take into account how things change for us in the fire service. I put it there as simply a reminder that it's not productive to think thay way anymore. You are correct in that there are many things that go into play when making the choice to go either offensive or defensive. This was opened as a way to get conversation going towards the different things that we now encounter and how they affect how we determine to go offensive or defensive.

I agree totally that command should be dynamic and also flexible. No plan should be set in stone and the IC needs to remain open so that the plan can be changed as needed. One of the main points I was wanting everyone to keep in mind is risk vs. benefit when making this decision.

Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on February 1, 2011 at 12:32pm

Hey Tom - do you have pictures of types of fires that you would / or would not enter - explaining why?

I know this is a broad question - and nuances can not be fully evaluated - but I liked your flood pictures, which really highlighted that taking a minute to evaluate a situation - before entering - can save lives.

And since I visually learn - I bet other people do to.

Being able to articulate what you are seeing and why you are making decisions helps keep everyone on the same page and opens the dialogue for another perspective to be included.

Permalink Reply by Tom Williams on February 1, 2011 at 12:41pm

Let me see what I can come up with Heather. Pretty sure that can be done.

Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on February 1, 2011 at 12:47pm

Nice... Very Nice...

I hear after issues arise - people say "I HAVE NEVER -- SEEN -- A FIRE LIKE THIS BEFORE"

Now maybe a few of them will...

Permalink Reply by Tom Williams on February 1, 2011 at 1:19pm

Let's hope so, there's always going to be that "out of ordinary" fire or run we respond to.

Permalink Reply by James Wright on February 2, 2011 at 3:50pm