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the politics of rope rescue
i have a question for the group, this is long so i hope everyone will bear with me because i need to establish some backround. I got into rope rescue as a personal specialty when i was a line firefighter. i attended basic-(knots, rigging, rappelling)-rope rescue school then advanced (in addition to basic,acending,belaying, mech adv,conf. space,complex systems). In each class i was warned by the instructors that when you return to your department, you might be classified as an "expert" in rope rescue and we were taught to downplay this as much as we could because every situation in rope rescue is different and a learning expirence. It happened to me anyway and i spent more time downplaying my abilities than doing actual rescues. My question to the room is, do any of you have to, or had to put up with the "self proclamed" rope rescue experts that believes that every word that comes out of their mouths should be etched in gold and followed without question and anyone who does starts the following series of events.
Who are you to question me about rope rescue operations followed by what is your training? No matter what training you cite the response is Thats not how "i" was trained, and because i was trained at scholol "A" and you went to school "Z" you are incorrect". I have to assume you know where i'm going from here. My situation is i uncovered an unsafe proceedure and when i went to press for its removal i was labeled a shit stirrer and what was "MY" motivation for questoning the proceedure? i said SAFETY and produced my evidence which came from outside industry authorities who reviewed the proceedure and urgred me to have it stopped. My department promptly accused me of embarassing the department "nationwidely" (a new term-nationwide-LY) and i should be suspended immieadiatly. i responded that i acted in the interest of safety not personal gain. That was quickly dismissed and when questioned by my BC i told him that if i was out for personal gain, i would have just wrote the unsafe proceedure up, submitted it, and when somebody got hurt or killed, all i would have to do was find a lawyer, produce the paperwork about the discovery and then say "they knew it was unsafe "X" amount of years ago and DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, then i would be a hero. My bottom line is i am all about safety and going on rope is inhearently UNsafe. When i teach basic rope rescue i teach the history, the NFPA-1983 standards, what the manafactures of a specific product say is correct and incorrect for a device, how rope is made, how to care for it etc. i stress safety and how various pieces of equipment should be used and not used (ie-carabiners are not descent devices-i dont care what the military told you) and how to care for it. I want to know if the "politics" of rope rescue cause a lot of fustration on your team or does everyone listen, give input, do reasearch before going or doing or do EGO's rule...all responses positive and negative are welcome
Who are you to question me about rope rescue operations followed by what is your training? No matter what training you cite the response is Thats not how "i" was trained, and because i was trained at scholol "A" and you went to school "Z" you are incorrect". I have to assume you know where i'm going from here. My situation is i uncovered an unsafe proceedure and when i went to press for its removal i was labeled a shit stirrer and what was "MY" motivation for questoning the proceedure? i said SAFETY and produced my evidence which came from outside industry authorities who reviewed the proceedure and urgred me to have it stopped. My department promptly accused me of embarassing the department "nationwidely" (a new term-nationwide-LY) and i should be suspended immieadiatly. i responded that i acted in the interest of safety not personal gain. That was quickly dismissed and when questioned by my BC i told him that if i was out for personal gain, i would have just wrote the unsafe proceedure up, submitted it, and when somebody got hurt or killed, all i would have to do was find a lawyer, produce the paperwork about the discovery and then say "they knew it was unsafe "X" amount of years ago and DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, then i would be a hero. My bottom line is i am all about safety and going on rope is inhearently UNsafe. When i teach basic rope rescue i teach the history, the NFPA-1983 standards, what the manafactures of a specific product say is correct and incorrect for a device, how rope is made, how to care for it etc. i stress safety and how various pieces of equipment should be used and not used (ie-carabiners are not descent devices-i dont care what the military told you) and how to care for it. I want to know if the "politics" of rope rescue cause a lot of fustration on your team or does everyone listen, give input, do reasearch before going or doing or do EGO's rule...all responses positive and negative are welcome
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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The challenge I've found with Rope Rescue is in part what you'vetouched on and said. There's 4 million experts out there and some of the techniques and information being taught is simply plain wrong and as you've already discovered- UNSAFE!
Go look at books- I've got CMC books, Tom Vines books, Caving books and so on, and you knwo what? They contradict each other at the best of times! Tyrolean Traverses is a good example. There's a load of different ways to build them I have my opinion on what's the safeest, but there's many out there who will dispute it.
In terms of your department, I'd try and set up a non threatening training event and put the techniques to the test. BUT, it has to be non-threatening. Let the group make an informed decision based on the training that day which must include theory and practical on both techniques. Make it a fun day, make it a relaxed day (ie: provide a BBQ lunch or something) and keep everyone's emotions out of the equation.
The unfortunate thing for you, is you may have already gone too far in the wrong direction according to the powers that be in your department. Getting them to agree to this type of session will be your biggest hurdle.
Another option may be to do the same thing but have it facilitated by a neutral person from another department or private company.
I'd suggest that you document everything in relation to this whole incident. Document all conversations, etc. This may turn ugly if something goes wrong.
Now, you have to share with us, so as we can give our 2 cents worth- what was the technique? -
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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We are fortunate in our area that most of us were trained by the same guy. This particular guy goes to all the national conferences. He does his own destrcutive testing and does a ton of research. He is nationally known and respected. On my team, we know who extremely proficient and comfortable with rigging or being at heights. Not everyone needs to be good at everything. But knowledge is important. Everyone is a safety officer. We know our limitations and we know the limitations of our team members. But, if we find something usafe, we bring it up and discuss it. Not one thing that has ever been brought up has been chastised. We tend to even call manufacturers from the training grounds if we have concerns. Now, like my pal Lutan said, what do we need to be concerned about? If it effects you, it effects all of us.
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Permalink Reply by Jim on
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You have done a very good job of explaining your "political frustration" If anyone has been in this business any time at all, they will understand your frustration. As an instructor I always try to remember the definition I heard a long time ago of "expert" . "Ex" means past or former and "spert" is a drip under pressure. There are many right ways to do what we do in this business. But there are also a few very wrong things to do!!! Also I have seen students and instructors alike, that think the last technique they learned is the "only way" to do it. I say the same thing every time this issue comes up, "all the tools and techniques you have learned about are all pieces of the puzzle that you store on your apperatus or in your head. Use what you need at any given time of need and leave the rest on the shelf for another day." Also if there is an issue of safety, go for it. We all teach, I hope, that everyone is responcible for everyone. That's what "team" means! first and foremost. So now, I also need to know what is this knot, system, or technique that started all this discussion. We all need to know, so that we may evaluate for our on TEAM. Thanks for your thoughts!
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