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When Do You Run Out Of Resources?
I was reading about the large amount of fires in Detriot recently and how some incidents had to wait 90 minutes for an engine. I don't but maybe I'm spoiled living in an area with 5 stations within 5 mins and 20 within 15 and 100 within 30 minutes.
As I look at a map of the Detroit metro area its hard to beleive that other cities or towns would not have responded into the city. I also read that this is the first time in 40 yrs Mutual Aid was requested. Hasn't 9-11 taught us anything. Chicago had a huge drill recently to verify communications and get EVERYONE on the same page.
We as emergency responders have a responsibilty to make sure we can keep our citizens safe. Case in point - Conshocken has a HUGEMONGUS fire couple of years ago. Several Del and NJ companies responded for cover ups. Easily a 45 min ride. I really don't se anyone saying "I don't want to travel miles to fight a fire or go to a new fire house" We get a larger response when we go to PA or NJ then to neighboring companies.
But back to the topic. There should never be a fire when no one responds. I might be wrong for pointing the finger at Detroit. I'm sure thier a bunch of great fireifghters and officers. But we need to learn from thier mistake. No one department can handle everything in thier district....NONE. NYC showed it, LA shows it and now detroit showed it. There is no embarassment in calling for help. If I could call for an additinal engine while cutting grass I would. Not calling for sufficent help and burning down a house. buiilding or half the city is embarassing.
But we need to be prepared. What happens after you use up your run card. Is it in the dispatchers hands? Where do you go after ALL the departments in your area have been called. How will you communicate?
So I guess I answered my own question...NEVER, As long as there is a firehouse with equipment and members somewhere in the country you will never run out of resources. Call them, use them.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Brierton on
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Recently Baltimore City MD put out a mutual aid call to surrounding counties and including Washington DC. I wonder how the different units managed to communicate but I can't answer the question since we were never dispatched.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I knew that DFD had it really bad for the past several years, but I had no idea about how completely ruined major parts of the city are until I started looking after the Sept. 7 fires.
One thing that really caught my attention was that thieves were stealing equipment off Engine 53's rig while they were the only unit on a working house fire. As one of the responses to the Detroit Yes message board says "Only in Detroit".
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Permalink Reply by EngineLadder on
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dave I agree with you but I know that you know that the BCFD is a very aggressive fd. I also know that nimis started from wild land firefighting and I also know that on a 2 story row house second floor bedroom off that you do need an IC, you do not need an operations you do not need a medical sector and you do not need 5inch hose..... what I am saying is that nimis has its place, for major fires but for everyday bread and butter fires nimis is a bunch of bullshit every one knows it its a pain in the ass no one wants to admit it because half the people on here aresafety nazies and have never fought a fire in there lives
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Ben our chief did not come up thru the rand this is the first time that we had some one from the out side come in. our chief was hired by our crooked ex mayor to make cuts several people have died because of these cuts. out chief came from minneapolis he is a push over to the mayor and he does not know how we fight fire in baltimore or how to fight fire in general. And by not knowing how to fight fire in general he reads too many ifsta books and goes to to many national fire academy classes and he does not have any street smarts.
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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I hesitate to discuss something that I have no first hand knowledge of but just as a thought, about ten years ago at an instructors seminar we talked about the Detroit situation. One of the instructers at the conference was from Windsor Fire and stated that they had an international mutual aide agreement with Detroit ,whether that was true or changed with 9/11 , I don't know but I would hope it exists somehow.
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Permalink Reply by Dave Williams on
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EngineLadder- Agree with you through the first 2/3 of your post. ICS is ICS, whether we call it NIMS or ICS or whatever. You only use what you need of it, and no more. But isn't it better if we all call it the same thing, use the same terminology. If we assume that only career units provide aid to Balt City, then on a true major incident Balt Co, AA Co, Howard Co get pulled into the city, they need to communicate with and understand each other. The volly's from those counties and Harford or Carroll then transfer to cover Balt Co. stations, work with the career units there and they need to speak the same language. So we all need to be versed on the use of one ICS. How far we go in implementing it call by call will be based on, as you stated, the size of the incident. (There, we agree again!) And 5" hose, sure if your potential flow exceeds your 3" but otherwise ????? And lets not get started on the safety nazis....were you in my FDSO class ?? That term was used there!
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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good points Ben
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Well said Ben.
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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I notice you have 2 years on, awful salty for 2 years.
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Ralph,
I've worked a couple of urban places where theft from fire stations and the rigs was an occasional problem, but the amount of crime and general devastation in Detroit is mind-boggling.
As far as comparing D-MICH with NOLA, I think there are three big differences that explain the situation:
1) NOLA was devestated by a two-day natural disaster; D-MICH was devestated by decades of crime, greed, neglect, and urban flight.
2) NOLA's primary industry is entertainment: D-MICH's primary industry was car manufacturing. NOLA's industry is going strong, D-MICH's industry has required multiple federal bailouts that still don't help sell cars.
3) Most importantly, D-MICH seems to have lost hope, while NOLA is one of the most hopeful places in America.
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