What would you do? Is the Scene Safe (or) Not? Watch and Comment

So here is the latest case study of "When is the scene safe or not?" The public feels you took an oath and expect you to rush in even though you could die from the environment.

Where does this end? Does the public expect firefighters to walk into the fully involved building because a loved one has unfortunately perished inside? If not... are you going to be sued for lack of response?

Take a look for yourself...

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid34762914001?bctid=6...

In my opinion, the Deputy Fire Chief gave the media what they want to hear and should have handled the clarification of their policy differently. As for my crew, I am waiting for three trigger words spoken by the Police Supervisor on scene that "The scene is safe"

Until then, law enforcement officers will have to secure the victim themselves and/or remove him to the fire-rescue staging area while they confront the non-detained assailant.

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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on December 5, 2010 at 4:18pm

There are shootings/stabbings every day in Philadelphia. Most of our communications with the police with regard to these matters are face-to-face. If not that, we can at least see them crawling all over the scene from our reasonably safe vantage point. Then we go in and do our thing. (And take up even faster.)

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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on December 5, 2010 at 5:28pm

we monitor the PD freq as well but I still would want to hear the officer say " Ok to send in FD/EMS" before we go in.

In this case an officer was calling for fire/ems but still never said anything that it was Ok to enter.

With 30 cops on scene I would hate to drive in just because one of them said --we need fire /ems

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Permalink Reply by Bradley Webb on December 5, 2010 at 6:22pm

I didn't read all the comments on this one but to me it seemed like there was too much confusion on the police side to remember two words although they did specifically call the Rescue in.

As for the Rescue crew they staged which is the right thing to do in those circumstances but when the police did arrive and the police called them in they still wanted to hear those words. Seems like the Rescue crew were getting upset over those two words and not listening to what the police were saying.

At our department we are told to stage usually anywhere from a block to a mile away, depends on where the victim is located. If it's in the city we are usually a block away, because the buildings will block the scene from us. If it's on a deserted road or the such we will stop as far back as it takes so that we cannot see the scene and they can't see us. On some occasions dispatch told us to go to a intersection and wait for an address for a shooting. Dispatch would not tell us until PD cleared it. As soon as PD clears a scene and gives any kind of a heads up, whether it be "scene safe" or "get down here" or even "suspect in custody", we're there in a heartbeat. Not going to fret because they don't say two specific words.

So the police and the FD made a mistake in this case in my honest opinion. I'm also with Bekks too though in the fact that sometimes a scene is never truly safe, and sometimes exceptions must be made.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on December 5, 2010 at 7:22pm

I don't believe the PD called them in. They called "we need fire/rescue". To me that is different then saying "have fire/rescue come in "

now I agree it is a fine line but sometimes so is the line between life and death.

We train folks to be clear communicators both in speech and in hearing. I agree with the FD response.

There is also no indication that the FD heard to radio traffic from officers to dispatch. They may have only heard what dispatch was telling them (FD)

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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on December 5, 2010 at 8:51pm

We had a situation at the firehouse many years ago. had a youth party that got out of hand. Gunshots were fired. We had 2 police working the party but it didn't help. There was a report of a subject down so several members grabbed the ems bag and went to help. I called an ambulance and they staged per SOP. Well the problem was the person wasn't shot but was seriously hurt, the crowd had pretty much dispersed but the police didn't give an under control.
As an officer I requested that EMS respond to the scene as it was safe. I'm not sad to say that I did curse and yell at dispatch. I might have used the sentence "get me someone with balls in here". After finally grabbing a police officer I finally got EMS to come into the scene, 10 minutes after my request.
My issue was that as an officer I felt the scene was safe. Why would I put others in jeapoardy for some knuckleheads that want to shot themselves. The police were dealing with one thing and didn't even know someone was hurt. Luckily my chief backed my play and we did have several meetings with EMS and Dispatch.
Of course very rarely will a fire officer be in that type of position again.