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Water. On-board or hydrant?
In one of Chris Naum's threads, there are people talking about getting water into the pump. Some attack immediately with the water on-board, others will always get a line to a hydrant to guarantee water right from the start. With us, the first pumper on-scene will start an attack first, if crew are available (this depends on how many made it for the first truck and what tasks have to be performed) then someone will be dragging a feed line to the nearest hydrant. However, the second pumper is usually right behind the first and will normally run a feed line to the first pumper to add their on-board supply, giving a little time to the hydrant crew. Do any other people do things this way? Feed the second in vehicle's water into the first arriving?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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It depends on whats burning and whats at stake. Entrapment means not hitrting the plug with another engine on your heels
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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We are not laying in with reports of people trapped. Water supply is the next due engine's responsibility.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Stewart on
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Here in Australia all the rural trucks have a on-board water supply which is between 450 litres to 4000 litres pending on the tank size.... if theres a fairly good sized structure fire where more than 1 line is required a standpipe is established and water is supplied for either relay pumping, refilling or direct attack
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Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
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We do it very similiar to what you describe. Most of our pumpers have 1000 gallons on board, and we have one with 2500 gallons but it is not usualy first on scene due to it being a slug. Very rarely does the first in pumper hit a plug, I should also say I am usualy on the first out by myself, so I have been known to take some large risk if need be, but usualy have people in pov within a couple minutes behind me we cover about 120 square mile so we are pretty spread out. No way everyone is going to the station first. But this works out extremly well for us, saved 17 out of 19 structures last year. Many were mobile homes. average response time is about six and a half minutes.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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We use whatever tactic fits the situation.
If the 2nd engine is close behind, the 1st engine may choose to not lay in.
Or...the 1st engine may wrap the plug and lay in, but the 2nd engine can stop and charge the supply line.
Or...the 1st engine may lay in, leave a firefighter at the hydrant, and charge the supply line.
Or...the 1st engine may lay the forward half of a split lay and the 2nd engine can lay the reverse half.
Or...the 1st engine may stop at a fire near the street and attack the fire with tank water while the 2nd engine reverse lays to the hydrant.
All are acceptable, situationally.
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Permalink Reply by morris washburn on
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We are a rural Dept . In the city limits we have hydrants ,but most of our calls are in County so we depend on Tankers . If we are in the city we dont hit hydrant untill more help is on scene or if we have no entrapment . I would rather hit Hydrant 1st . as we go by ,mostly we have a hydrant on every corner so we are usualy good .
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Interesting this came up; we are in the process of changing our SOP on this. This is for in town structure fires only; 1st eng is attack, can seat up to 5 people and carries 1000gal, 2nd is our rescue, equipment only and can seat up to 7, this rig rolls on all calls is usually only a few seconds behind 1st eng and in a fire will serve as search and vent. 3rd in is another eng and is water supply, this eng carries a reverse lay LDH and seats 2 people, the reason for reverse so it can drop the additional man off at scene to be a floater. Victims or no victims should not determine if you hook a plug with 1st in, you should not. Ok I’ll pause here and say every situation will be different, but if you want to do an aggressive attack then forget about water, even 300gals should be sufficient to do a good knockdown. Does everyone know the time/temperature curve, if you can get water on it before it gets to high then it’s a save, beyond a certain point and all the water in your system won’t do any good, its defensive. My point to all of this is the faster you get the wet stuff on the red stuff the better of you are. Now if you come around the corner and flames are shooting out all the windows, be my guest hook the plug, it’s beyond the time curve. We don’t have a lot of in-town fires, mostly rural, and that’s a whole different attack, tender opps, but it has carried over to fires that we do have a good water source and we spend to much manpower and time setting up water supply.
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Permalink Reply by 144Truck on
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What's a hydrant.... Seriously though, I would tend to agree with Chief Waller that water supply is highly dependent on the tactical situation on arrival... A large portion of our "First Due" is rural however, and in some situations the first in (1000 tank) goes right to work and the second in engine will lay from the fire to an accessible location, drop its' tank water (2000 gallons) and then become the "hydrant" as a nurse tanker.
Generally, we have more than enough water on wheels IF we beat the time/temperature curve.
Same basics apply to the portion of our "First Due" that is hydranted, and a lay in is dependent on tactics, whether the Truck needs supply, etc.
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Permalink Reply by Marc on
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Ok, in Los Angeles CITY we do it in a different way.
We have task-force set ups, which means, 1 truck 1 engine and 1 older modle engine/PUMP.
When a Task Force is dispatched to a fire, and ware the first companies on scene (no single engine beat 'em there) the truck immdeitialy goes to the roof for ventialtion, engine starts to hit the fire with the 500 gallon onboard water tank while the Pump hooks up to the hydrant and then supplies the engine. Ohh ya, those rescue guys, the just help hook up ther 4-way to a hydrant and then sit around, (mostly)
Marc Hurwitz
Explorer Capt.
LAFD
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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We are a rural Department...We have to take our water with us and sometimes call for tankers for mutual aid....We roll with 11,000 gallons....then we set up a draft site and the tankers will shuttle water to us...usually have at least 1 portable pond set up for the attack engine to draft from.....needless to say....without water we are sunk......Paul
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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I agree with the others that this is a case-by-case call. I have driven the 2nd due pump to scenes and given my tank water to the scene truck while I got a folding tank/hard suction drafting operation set up.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't: with 5 inch LDH, remember that its capacity is a gallon per foot, and the pumper supplying the attack truck sometimes just fills the supply line with its tank - if the stretch is a lengthy one.
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