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Virginia Town Officials Reconsider Pre-Emptive Devices
JOEL TURNER
The Franklin News Post
Reprinted with Permission
Rocky Mount Town Manager James Ervin said that he thinks town officials may discuss the installation of traffic pre-emptive devices that could change traffic lights to give emergency vehicles the right of way through intersections.
"It is fairly expensive. You would have to put the devices on the lights at every intersection," Ervin said.
The cost could approach several thousand dollars at each intersection, he said.
"But it is something that we could discuss," Ervin said, in the aftermath of the accident in which Fire Chief Posey Dillon and firefighter William "Danny" Altice died Monday.
Dillon and Altice were killed on their way to a house fire when their fire engine was struck by an SUV at the intersection of Old Franklin Turnpike and School Board Road.
The fire engine's flashing lights and siren were on, state police said, but the other vehicle had the green traffic light.
The pre-emptive devices, which are mounted on traffic lights, receive a signal from the emergency vehicles, making the light turn green for the emergency vehicles.
The pre-emptive devices are used in Roanoke and many other localities.
Several years ago, Dillon raised the possibility of Rocky Mount installing the devices in the town.
Ervin said that Dillon brought up the idea during budget talks, but he doesn't recall that it was formally presented to town council or voted on. Some council members reportedly had concerns about the cost.
According to some online reports, the pre-emptive systems can cost more than $5,000 per intersection and $3,000 per vehicle.
Earlier this year, the Waynesboro, Virginia, City Council delayed action on a proposed pre-emptive system because of concerns about the cost. The Waynesboro proposal called for a five-year plan at $246,000 to equip 28 intersections along the city's six busiest streets.
Related
The Franklin News Post
Reprinted with Permission
Rocky Mount Town Manager James Ervin said that he thinks town officials may discuss the installation of traffic pre-emptive devices that could change traffic lights to give emergency vehicles the right of way through intersections.
"It is fairly expensive. You would have to put the devices on the lights at every intersection," Ervin said.
The cost could approach several thousand dollars at each intersection, he said.
"But it is something that we could discuss," Ervin said, in the aftermath of the accident in which Fire Chief Posey Dillon and firefighter William "Danny" Altice died Monday.
Dillon and Altice were killed on their way to a house fire when their fire engine was struck by an SUV at the intersection of Old Franklin Turnpike and School Board Road.
The fire engine's flashing lights and siren were on, state police said, but the other vehicle had the green traffic light.
The pre-emptive devices, which are mounted on traffic lights, receive a signal from the emergency vehicles, making the light turn green for the emergency vehicles.
The pre-emptive devices are used in Roanoke and many other localities.
Several years ago, Dillon raised the possibility of Rocky Mount installing the devices in the town.
Ervin said that Dillon brought up the idea during budget talks, but he doesn't recall that it was formally presented to town council or voted on. Some council members reportedly had concerns about the cost.
According to some online reports, the pre-emptive systems can cost more than $5,000 per intersection and $3,000 per vehicle.
Earlier this year, the Waynesboro, Virginia, City Council delayed action on a proposed pre-emptive system because of concerns about the cost. The Waynesboro proposal called for a five-year plan at $246,000 to equip 28 intersections along the city's six busiest streets.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Stotler on
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That would be a good idea, only if you could get motorists used to the intersections having them.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Berg on
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Many states have outlawed Traffic control devices because t hey cause horrendous accidents, just like the one you are talking about... People do not hear or see often the warnings of emergency vehicles, and changing the lights too quickly and the emergency drivers depending on something like this does not always work. These traffic controllers are very dangeroous indeed.
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Permalink Reply by Bill on
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They are installed in our county and I have not heard of any issues using them causing accidents, etc. They are not something that immediately goes from a full green light to immediate red with a fire truck blaring through the intersection. They are set off some distance away allowing the light to change from green to yellow to red in its normal pattern. In blind spots to the intersection a separate signal pole is placed which registers the fire truck call for signal change and it sends notice forward to light for it to begin process to change.
If the unit signals ahead of time the light should have changed over by the time they reach the intersection. They still slow down entering and check traffic before proceeding. What this also does is clear their lanes of travel at a busy intersection so that cars are out of their way in as many lanes possible so they can turn left, turn right or go straight as needed without cars trying to find a space to get out of the way.
Costs? Can't say. But how much are two firefighters lives worth as well as a fire truck destroyed if this item could have prevented it.
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I respectfully disagree. The City of Austin, Texas has spent an enormous amount of money on the devices and they are proven, in multiple locales, to be cost effective and result in a significant reduction of intersection collisions. To state the devices are dangerous is simply not true. If you can provide some studies that show otherwise I would love to have you direct the readers to the appropriate site. Otherwise, I believe the studies the City of Austin utilized are available to the public through the City's PIO. In fact, the City of Austin is exploring expanding our use of the devices due to their effectiveness. As with any device, the user should always be prepared for the device to fail. In essence, be prepared to stop at all intersections. The most effective tool for accident avoidance is a culture of defensive driving for the operators of the emergency vehicles.
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In my opinion, I think they would be a very good device, people would just have to learn to adjust to them, plus, you never know if its going to be a good thing or a bad thing until you try it out, so don't go dissing something unless you've experienced it, or tried it out first hand.
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Yep, I suspect that the devices would certainly help to clear the intersection. Then the approaching apparatus can pick up even more speed to get to that call. Compare the costs involved to the costs of upgrading the driver training, and showing the benefits of actually slowing down and even stopping at intersections. That just sounds too boring to do that. What an insult - to actually insinuate that drivers of these monster machines are in need of more driver training... nah.. should never be considered.. buy the damn gizmos and roll on!
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Permalink Reply by ff/emt 2155 on
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Ervin said that Dillon brought up the idea during budget talks, but he doesn't recall that it was formally presented to town council or voted on. Some council members reportedly had concerns about the cost.
with politics it has to be formally presented and now these 2 firefighters ard dead we will consider looking at them again so mr ervin how many more ff's should we send to there death no wait you already got 2 ff's how bout some police officers now will that sweetin the pot befor you get them
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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We've had them for quite a few years now and have found them like any tool usefull in the right hands but not to be completly relied on. The only real problem we had was a glitch initially that kept freezing the lights after we passed but once that was fixed they have worked well for us. No accidents caused by them that I'm aware of.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I agree, Ken. We have them on every traffic signal in our reponse area. The system is not perfect or trouble-free, but our intersection accident rate has dropped essentially to zero with traffic preemption and driver training on the systems abilities and limitations.
Remember that when you use traffic preemption to change a red light to green, the system MUST give the cross traffic a yellow light that meets the state traffic law minimum time before changing the cross street's light to red. You also MUST have a traffic light that gives pedestrian traffic adequate time to clear the crosswallk.
If the apparatus operator is driving too fast, you can "Overdrive" the system and stil lhave an accident. That puts the fault of intersection accidents squarely on the apparatus operator - and on the officer that lets the driver approach intersections at unsafe high rates of speed.
We require our drivers to slow down to a rate that allows them to come to a full stop in order to prevent overdriving the system.
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Mark, can you tell us what states have outlawed traffic preemption systems and provide evidence that those states actually have outlawed the systems?
Traffic control systems don't "change the lights too quickly". They are set to allow a legal-length yellow light for the cross street and adequate time for pedestrians to clear the crosswalk.
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