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Violence/Aggression Against Crews
Do you experience violence or aggression when attending calls? Here in Dublin, Ireland it is a regular occurrence in certain areas of the city. Sometimes they will set a car fire just to lure us in and then throw stones & bottles at the crew. Mindless I know - but it has caused numerous injuries to our firefighters. One recently had to get over 40 stitches to his face and was badly scarred.
We record these incidents within our accident reporting system and have CISM in place also to help if required. How does your department deal with the issue?
We record these incidents within our accident reporting system and have CISM in place also to help if required. How does your department deal with the issue?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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ummmmm....wow.....don't know what to say about this one.
I live in a rural area and never see anything like that. Even the town FF don't see that. I can't imagine.
Why, in your opinion, does that kind of thing happen?
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Permalink Reply by Peter Barriscale on
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It happens in the less well-off areas. A lot of unemployment, drugs and criminality in thse areas too. I can only assume that it's rebellion against society or a form of amusement to them. They don't seem to realise we are the same guys who come in the ambulance to cart them to the ER when they overdose or get stabbed/shot.
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Permalink Reply by Patrick on
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Haven't had anything that bad, but the past 6 month's every Car Crash that we have had.. we have gotten threatened flipped the bird and called everyname in the book. I don't what is going with people.. they don't realize that we are there to help and we didn't cause the problem in the first place.
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I guess all you could do is back the truck up and call the police to diffuse the situation, then, if it's still worth it, put out the fire.----meaning that by the time you get to it, it may already be burning itself out.
In regards to EMS.Ralph said it nicely.
How do they respond to police in those areas?
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Hi Ralph, Patrick, Derek,
Yes, we all just want to get back to the station and home to our families in one piece. There are areas we won't go into without the police and we wait for them to arrive before we go in to deal with the situation. Delays like that can have serious consequences - usually for an innocent victim.
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Our police force is unarmed - except for some plain clothes units. It's mostly yuths that attack us and they tend to disappear into the shadows when the police arrive and just shout abuse. The police know most of them anyway, but if they are under 16 years old there is little they can do to them and they know it.
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Recording the incident and having CISM in place are good post-incident actions. But unfortunately, not very good for in the moment in regards to your comment about the possibility of a victim not being rescued.
So the police are pretty much responding to all calls in those known areas? How do they deal with weapon threats when they themselves are unarmed. unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) all I can do is try to imagine what it might be like there.
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If the police are aware of a weapon threat, they include armed officers in the response. Our usual tactic in these areas is to ensure we have an escape route - if the fire is in a cul-de-sac (dead end) we reverse the truck in so we can drive out quickly if we have to. Usually things are ok once the police are on scene. We wouldn't wait for the police if it was a domestic fire - we would put the life of anyone trapped first of course. What I said earlier was regarding someone who might have been seriously injured in the original violence that led to us being called in the first place.
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to quote you: "We wouldn't wait for the police if it was a domestic fire - we would put the life of anyone trapped first of course." YOUR safety is first and foremost. Scene safety is #1. Would you agree with that?
So is it that bad there that if there was a structure fire, would you still get harassed by the neighborhood "thugs"?
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No, not that bad. Haven't had trouble at domestic fires ever - it's always cars or bonfires, stuff like that where we're "spoiling their fun" as they see it. Don't get me wrong, we don't get this everywhere - only in certain areas of the city, same as any other large city. Dublin is still a very safe city by international standards. Where are you exactly - are you in a city, large town or rural area?
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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Many cities in the US have had problems where the fire dept shows up and had to duck because they had things thrown or dropped from buildings on them. Our engine has had things thrown at it by kids and we live in a area considered mild but they were responding through a area where crime always happens.
If you want to know about problems with fire calls read "Report From Engine Co. 82" by Dennis Smith who also started "Firehouse" magazine and a few other books about firefighting.
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Thanks Ashfire. I'll see if I can pick up a copy of that book.
I'd like to hear from someone who might have statistics on violence against their crews as I'm hoping to do some research on this - Why it happens, backgrounds of the culprits, different ways to prevent it - education, penalties, facilities in place for crews affected etc. to ascertain best international practice.
So if anyone knows where I can get this type of information, please let me know.
Thanks.
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