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Vehicle Fire Operations - You make the call?
Please review the video link below (open it up to fullscreen) and then give me what you would have done differently if you were responding on the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrB1p04p34w&feature=player_embe...#!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Well FETC...nice video...I would not even begin to fight it until the power has been shut off...looks like primaries overhead with a transformer...I would have the exposures cleared out of the way (vehicles) ALL FIREFIGHTERS would have full PPE to include Airpacks not just the nozzle-man...the clown in the blue shirt and the fire-extinguisher wouldn't be there (might as well piss on it than use it anyways)...Get traffic control in place....then attack it from upwind and uphill if possible with AR- AFFF if available (remember ethanol based fuels)....if not then with either class A foam or water but lots of it.....should have hooked a hydrant on the way in but doesn't look like it was...if not in the immediate area (hydrant) call for a second engine with orders to hook nearest hydrant and do forward lay to act as supply....wouldn't hurt a bit to pull a second line... not sure about manpower, but I have never seen a scene that you had too much help....call second alarm.....also might want to dam the runoff...if flammable liquids get into the drain system then it could become real nasty really quickly.......sure there is more...always is....
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Hey Ralph...chicken shit answer.....LOL....climb back in your puke box....we will take it from here.....LOL...Good to see you here again....I missed picking on you.......Take care buddy..........Paul
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Permalink Reply by Michael Meadows on
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Paul, I saw the guy in the blue shirt but chances are he was an officer as he had a radio and I didn't see him with a fire extinguisher. I didn't see those brought out until the small stream of fuel was going down the sidewalk, in which case using that would make sense to protect the hoseline and the other vehiecles from damage. Only thing I really saw wrong was the lack of urgency on the part of the first due crew and lack of use of BA's, which is standard procedure in a lot of places for car fires so no real suprise there. I would have used foam as well but it is possible they were doing the best they could with what they had.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on
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At first, I thought the clown in the blue shirt was a bystander. Sadly, it appears he was in charge. lol
All utilities would need to be called. The lower wires on the pole, (that were buring) are usually communications, ie - telephone, and cable tv etc, the higher up the pole, the higher the voltage wires.. but all would certainly need to be called in.
Fire the chief. What he allows, he approves! Ok maybe a bit harsh, but Chit rolls down hill, so start at the top and right the wrongs for next time! Get the clown out of there. He is a liability more than anything. No SCBA and I can bet that the clown, as well as the guys right in there in the thick of things without SCBA, will all be making claims for occupational illnesses (cancer) down the road. WHY? WTF harm would it do to put the fn SCBA on? Lazy! Class B foam might be useful to stop the gas fire, but in addition, diking off the sewer grates would also need to be considered to prevent the product of the ruptured fuel tank from entering the underground systems. Simple sand dikes would probably work if they carried the stuff on their rigs. HAZ MAT? well, in some depts. yes, they would be calling in the hazmat team to deal with the leaking fuel. Hopefully the ladder will carry some useful stuff, since I see no need for the ladder itself.
Did I miss anything? If they hadn't tended to the gas leak/fire around the other cars, it would not have been too long til they too were involved.. but... what else?
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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Poor guy's only a defenseless medic! LMAO
I missed you, too, Ralph. Can't ya tell?
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Permalink Reply by James Hawk on
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ok, so apparently FDNY doesnt believe in using SCBA for outdoor fires. should also have contacted utility companies regarding the burning wires and poles. I would also like to know when it became an acceptablepractice to walk behind a vehicle fire. The officer in the blue shirt shouldnt have been as close as he was to the bus without PPE. and it might have helped to keep the handline away from the runoff stream. and to contain the runoff and use speedi-dry to clean it up. oh, one more thing. the driver of the bus should ne found and ticketed for parking in front of a fire hydrant.
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You guys caught every issue already. I agree the biggest safety issue is the lack of SCBA. We don 'em on vehicle fires. They're easier to take off than they are to put on for sure. The officer stands under the lines and over the streaming fuel. Scratchin' my head! FDNY? Jeez...
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Permalink Reply by Al Williams on
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I think the delay on putting water on the fire was because they were evaluating the situation about the overhead wires. The runoff was another problem, but the use of the dry chems was effective. Foam could have been considered. Only concern I have was the guy walking around without bunker gear and lack of SCBA usage. It is what it is.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I would like to add something else, that city firefighters might not know about. Carbon within the smoke can conduct electricity. In the wildland / urban protection world it is called Carbon Arc Blowdown, where the particulates contained within the smoke column can conduct the overhead electricity down through the smoke column.
That ovehead power is constantly seeking the path of least resistance to the earth below.
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Mike watch the video again...the clown in the blue shirt had what appears to be a dry chem....and he was all over the place without ANY turn outs...only thing wrong...? They were working under what appears to be primary electrical lines (primary usually carry in excess of 13,000 volts) Those vehicles both to the right and across the street are "exposures" with huge fuel loads (20 gals of gasoline)...Only one guy had an airpack on...only water supply was what they carried with them in the engine (1000-2000 gals...est time frame 5-10 minutes worth) Keep looking friend...
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it was "effective"..? looks like it was still going strong to me....
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Thanks FETC...missed that one...but a solid stream can also conduct electricity...at least we were taught so....Don't really want to test that one....I'm too ugly to die......yet LOL
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