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Truck placement on scene.....
This is a big problem at alot of Dept's. Lets hear some stories and idea's way's to solve problems and train to be more prepaired upon arrival.
We got toned to a 2story wood frame multi fam house for fire alarm. This house is on the corner of a main road and a side street with a stone wall lining the lot. the driveway was off the side street. the engine first on scene pulled onto the side street and stopped now blocking all of the side street. the police car had pulled up prior to engine and parked on the street after the driveway. Now here comes the ladder with now no place to park ends up parked on the main road before the side street. Ok i understand the ladder is a 100' stick but that doesn't mean you can park down the street. lucky for the home owner it was a false alarm because when IC who was driving the engine was in the house If there was a true emergancy there is no IC outside doing a 360 plus instead of setting up lines, raising ladders, and starting a search they would have been moving trucks into the right places so they could actually use them. Not only would that cause a huge cluster but look like a bunch of civilians just trying to be heros. Or is that all they are when they don't show up to any of the training because the Chief say's they don't have to because they're his kids. But that's a whole other topic in it self haha.
Lets hear some stories, ideas, and resolutions.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adam Gillis on
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well i have only been in the fire service for about a total of 3 in a half years, so im kinda new with this stuff but im gunna say that if your lucky and the call was during the "9 to 5" work day you might have so additional rescources that might help out. i went to a daytime ama call for a fire alarm activation in the downtown area of a neighboring department and the village DPW and PD were there and had traffic being rerouted for the inccident and the engine from the neighboring department and my departemnts engine-tanker so we had no problems with traffic at all which was great becuase it was a busy day and there was alot of traffic out that day
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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This is your problem right here
...IC who was driving the engine was in the house...
Incident commanders have a lot to think about and should do everything they can to avoid becoming directly involved in operations in a hands on way.
It's up to the IC to control apparatus placement, including cop cars if necessary. In my area, once IC has been established the practice is for approaching apparatus to call up with something like 'Truck XXX approaching from Whatever Street, instructions?', meaning they will be arriving on scene shortly and want to know where to position the vehicle and what the crew will be tasked with. A typical reply might sound like "Truck XXX, take the bravo/charlie corner, set up for aerial operations." The IC will know the truck has access to that corner because he/she is performing in a command role and is maintaining oversight of the fireground.
Sounds like you've got big problems in your dept, good luck resolving them. I suggest your command staff take a look at this report from Loudoun County MD.
http://www.loudoun.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=2384
A good example of what can happen when initial command personal overlook some simple rules, like performing a FULL 360, and not getting involved in operations until relieved. (Not trying to bash any dept here, it's just an excellent report and learning opportunity)
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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Hi Mike.
A good practice is neighborhood incident planning. Pick a night of the week, or when you're all sitting around and make a scenario and discuss things like 360, pulling lines, apparatus positions and certain things to look for in that particular residence or structure. Getting to know your neighborhood and how to work around it saves a lot of confusion and angry faces if you ever do have an incident in that area. Every once in a while we actually do structure/business tours to get an idea of layout and hazards if ever a fire were to break out, and with that we talk about where the best place to pull the trucks up and line advancement.
The training issue? Hell, good luck with that one. Seems like you have a few issues to contend with. Might wanna start there first.
good luck, KSHF
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Permalink Reply by Michael A. Pimental on
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this call was at night i think about 2300 so people were home and probably in bed.
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but even during the day calling in additional dept. would not have helped because they wouldn't have been able to get the trucks into the scene either. all because of one engine and a cruiser parked with no thought.
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I agree the first problem was promoting a ff just out of the academy to Lt and as a part timer. In 2 years this Lt. has not shown up for 1 training class. As Lt. of that engine it is his job to set up training on that truck as well. The Chief has no problem with this either. there are a few who show up for every or most training classes. Go to calls whether it's a good call or a crap call these other guys who never train never go to calls unless it's a good one. Where would we start with a problem like that when it's only going to anger the Chief and half the dept.
(This is not to slander or incriminate any person or dept. but only to discuss situations they may happen from time to time at various dept's.)
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but that's why i started this post is to talk about the issues with truck placement good training issues with lack of training. In this case your right IC should NOT be entering the dwelling he should have been commanding the scene.
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I checked out the video. Good video for training classes. Why is the tower operator at the top of a ladder braking a window with heavy smoke with no bunker coat or scba?! Not a shock firefighters got injured on that call from what i could see from the video.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Michael,
If you're having problems in your dept between paid and vollie, you have just created a bigger problem by coming on here and airing your thoughts and grievances about your chief, lieutenants and the IC of the call you're discussing. This sounds less like you're looking for tactical answers and more like you're pissing in someone wheaties.
You've been in the fire service for 2 years, not necessarily a lot of time to learn tactics. I don't know who IC was (rank), so anything to offer here is only conjecture. You didn't say what your part in this call was or what you came in on. If the PD was on scene first the call may have been downgraded without you being aware of it. Knowing the due area the IC may have felt the placement he chose was appropriate.
As for IC being in the house, again it depends on the call, who is coming in second due or if there are other officers on scene or on approach. He may have been taking a combat command position as well. I'm just trying to think of reasons for what occurred, to have occurred. Something you should maybe have done in-house.
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Permalink Reply by Doug on
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Thank you, dt. My thoughts exactly. I think the other Apparatus Placement thread just started by someone else would serve us all better.
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I did not mean to take the discussion off topic and would like to keep it on the tactical level.
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Which ever whether you want to talk about truck placement on this page or another it doesn't matter. It will serve all the same.
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