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tranning burns
why is it so hard to get tranning. I think the tranning that we get when we do a live burn is so important. It gives us real expereance . I think we are losing so much with out them and the newer guys kind of freak out when they finally get a good fire. In my opinon the lack of that type of training is going to get them killed. Like at my Department we cann't do them because of the money to get the perments
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Butch McCurdy on
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In my County the EPA wont let us burn houses for training, but Tn does have a nice fire academy.
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Permalink Reply by bret cunningham on
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we have a good burn building but the state wont let us use it . the thing that makes me so made is they are worried about the liabilty and all ,but i think trannig is more important. What about our safty on knowing what to do in fires ? What about the liability of death by lack of knowlege.
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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We are still able to do Live training burns. However, they are getting few and far between because of so many houses or close in neighborhoods. We try to stay away from impacting people or causing us bad press because of the smoke impacting a neighborhood negatively.
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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I think the EPA has alot to do with that. Now you have so much paperwork to do just to get permission to do it. Plus you have to make sure all asbestos shingles are off of the house. It's just too much of a hassle and alot of fire depts. don't have the time or resources to take care of meeting the EPA guidelines.
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LOL!!! I think it's those long things that are all hooked together that haul goods a people...oh wait, that's a train. Nevermind.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Rocke on
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Burns in live structures are hard to come by. We have been lucky enough to do one a year for the past 3 or 4 years. We also go to our regional burn building once a year. There must be somewhere you can go for live fire training. Contact your state fire academy. Talk to your officers. Do something! If you can't get trained on interior attack, your useless and a liability. If it comes down to money, tell your town that you cannot go into buildings anymore because you do not have the money to train. That should change your departments budget a little
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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"If it comes down to money, tell your town that you cannot go into buildings anymore because you do not have the money to train. That should change your departments budget a little"
I think that pretty much sums it up. -
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Right Jack? I have total control over my budget every year. Besides making sure the trucks/equipment run, and the electricity/heat are on, I make sure the guys get training. If I have to pay for a course they want, I do. If I have to pay for permits do burn a house, I do. I just burned a place in October. No money for the permit, just food for the guys, a few pieces of plywood, and a police detail for the day. Less than $500. It frustrates me so much to see departments that can't get training because of money. I would spend my own money before I let an untrained guy go out on my truck.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Live burns are really a small portion of training. If there is a house to train on there is a lot that can be done without burning the thing. We get several vacant structures to train on, doing RIT, cutting roofs, laddering, fire attack, search rescue and so forth. The only limits are your imagination.
On another thread called "Dead Man Walking" a poster there mentioned about doing things enough that they become a routine. That is absolutely correct. You say new guys freak out. Get a house, smoke up a room (you can use a smoke machine without a permit and they can do a good job smoking the place up) then operate how you would if there was a fire. Pull lines, ladder, vent, search and so forth. It becomes routine and while it doesn't curb fears it gives a base to work on and something to fall back on.
Here is another good one if you have a thermal imager. Set up different objects of different temps around a structure, send in a couple people to do a search and to locate all the objects. Some are cold, some are hot, also place dummies, or even people around in places like bathtubs, closets, etc so a proper search is done. Switch the camera around halfway through with the other person.
Training burns in acquired structures is good if you can do them, but in no way the only way to learn. As for the burn tower stuff, the issue may not be the fact you can't use it, but there has to be certified fire instructors to be there. The burn building for the tech school is in our city, but we just can't go in there when we want, we have to call and schedule, despite the fact we have several certfied fire instructors with our dept who also work for the school. -
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I was not saying that training burns are the most important, but they are essential. There is alot you can do for little or no money to train firefighters. I was just saying that if money is the reason why they cannot do a live fire, then they need to approach the people in charge of the money and correct that. It may be that the chief feels its not necessary. That is the way the chief before me felt. We had at least 6 guys leave because they couldn't get the training they wanted/needed. I have changed that. Maybe Bret's department needs to change that too.
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A Chief that thinks that training is NOT necessary? Holy crap! WTF was he doing as chief...oh wait...social club. I got it.
Michael...good to see that not everyone felt that way. Too many "departments" think that training is just too hard on the "members", they're more afraid of losing "members" than having actual firefighters. -
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