The Helmet Cam Ban

Some say helmet cams were doomed from the get go, some say they were the greatest tool used in debriefing and scene analysis. but now with more and more departments banning their use, are they dodging the lawsuit bullet, or are they doing away with a great "learning from your mistakes" tool. HFD has banned their use. Many have said that the recordings may contain info of personal nature and therefor opens the door to lawsuits. although that may be true, if its not posted for the world to see,ie.. WWW. and only used in-house for training purposes, I don't see a problem with them. Haveing a cam in a working fire has so many advantages, to benefiting accident investigation, to helping the new probie have a look-see at what to exspect, and what not to do. the only down fall i see is a potential lawsuit by a moron.

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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on January 5, 2010 at 7:25am

I would have to agree with Kali on this one Randy (Damn, how often does that happen?). Maybe an apology is in order.

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Permalink Reply by Tony Leonard,Jr. on January 5, 2010 at 11:34am

DAMNED IF YOU DO...DAMNED IF YOU DON'T

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Permalink Reply by Randy Porter on January 5, 2010 at 4:37pm

i see now why chief waller didn't want to comment on this subject. he didn't want to type all that over again!!! lol . JOKE ... I checked the links provided by mr crabbe, i feel Chief waller has many points supporting his position, But i also feel that if chiefs and departments as a whole weren't scared of the bean counters in city government, they could work past the other issues of the cameras, such as the tangled up argument. designs could be changed, but that takes R&D and they would have to be used in live fires to see if it worked or not.

internal workings of cam could be put inside helmet, pen size cam put in center of shield.
no tangle haz. Just like the tazzers the cops use, their data could only be down loaded by PIO of the dept, therefore controlling the use of the footage.

from the moment i joined the fire service i was told CHANGE is a bad word. I see it now, and it has been that way in the past. But as new ideas are brought forth, the quality changes tend to grab hold and never leave and eventually become the norm. I feel the cameras are going the same rout as SCBA did back in the day. The old smoke eaters said they hated them and they were for wussies, "they could get some one killed by getting TANGLED up" i think cameras have a place in the fire service and its just a matter of time before they are adopted as the norm, but it will come with some regulation, due to the "Morron putting it on the internet".

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Permalink Reply by Randy Porter on January 5, 2010 at 4:40pm

Thanks Mr Crabbe, and your right i really shouldn't of got all butt hurt about it, but your response is really what i had expected from a chief, so my attitude was more from disappointment than anything else.

" that comment is not intended to insult or bash chief waller in any way"

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on January 6, 2010 at 12:23pm

Regardless of the direction this discussion went (at least temporarily), the question remains: What is the value of a helmet cam?

Here - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=helmet+cam+fire&sea...
takes you to a list of 'hemet cam' videos. Albeit somewhat cherry picked, the two I've posted I think are typical of the quality and value of helmet cam videos.

The view is significantly less than that of the human field of view and is disconcertingly erratic to watch. Unless a person is specifically assigned to 'capture the scene' (and why would that be at a working fire?) the video(s) tends to be somewhat random and happenstance.

Personally I find it difficult to lend little (if any) value to these videos in terms of teachable moments. Granted there may be the odd video that has some value: I can't find the one that, prior to entry it was noticed (and visible through the video) that smoke and flame were visible coming up through the floor from the basement, that was a learning moment.

I guess you can view the various videos and make up your own mind.

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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on January 6, 2010 at 1:56pm

I guess the guy in the first video didn't get the memo about not wearing fire helmets while riding in aparatus. JK P.S. im glad im sitting down that made me dizzy

TCSS