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Ten Minutes in the Street: Read "through" the Smoke
You’re the designated Safety Officer at the scene of a working fire involving a moderate sized, single story commercial building. Companies have been working for about ten minutes into the operations. You’re starting to complete a 360 of the building, which has full access. You come across the task operations depicted in the photo. You observe a three person crew operating a hand line. (Two firefighters and a Company Officer). A Battalion Chief is observed coming across the location also.
As the Safety Officer, what do your observations tell you? What are you’re immediate actions and follow-up actions (if any) and why? There’s some dynamics present here that say a lot, IF you know what to look for, what is obvious and what is very subtle.
A typical fire, typical conventional fire suppression operations being undertaken, typical tactics…..Read through the smoke and take a minute to see things that we sometimes fail or neglect to see, remember, we may be only ten minutes in the street, but it’s what happens in the eleventh and twelfth minutes that changes everything……
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DUST on
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thanks for the link...I saw that the vol. 4 Everyone Goes Home dvd coming out this summer has a Smoke Reading section included too.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Jared,
If firefighters shouldn't be in this one, they shouldn't be on it (roof), either.
I know Chris hates the spoiler shots, but this one opened itself up jiffy quick, so there was no need to risk the truckies on the roof.
I agree completely with not worrying about gear details on a dead firefighter. Once we get these guys away from the structure, the SCBA straps and B.C.'s lack of gloves and hood won't matter.
Master streams (portable monitors or deck pipes) fed with LDH would indeed be a good choice for this one.
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I like the option of using piecing nozzles on a roof, never heard of them used like that before, but makes sense.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Lelaidier on
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Ben I was thinking you could vent from the ladder?
I didnt look at any other comments or the new picture before I wrote this, but I could se it coming down easy I bet the building before the fire couldnt have standed a harsh wind.
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Venting from the ladder puts the hole next to the edge of the building. Assuming that you can ladder the building from any side you wish, you have three choices for the hole placement - upwind, downwind, or crosswind. Putting the hole upwind may let the wind just drive the fire down into the building. Putting the hole crosswind or downwind may create a wind tunnel effect that will draw the fire through the building.
Vertical vent needs to be done above the fire. If the fire is in the center of this building you won't be able to reach it from the ladder tip unless you have a snorkel or other articulating boom that can reach laterally over the fire.
Venting from the ladder also limits the size of the hole to what you can reach. There's enough heat in this building that a 4 x 4 or even a 4 x 8 hole isn't going to be big enough.
Cutting a bigger hole would tempt the truckies to leave the ladder and cut from the roof.
At the South Carolina Fire Academy's Firefighter Safety and Health Conference last January, a very smart guy named Chris Naum had an excellent slide show including several photos showing truckies - sometimes 10 or 12 truckies - on flat roofs trying to cut small vent holes with a volcano of fire autovented in a nearby part of the roof. He also showed similar situations - like the Waldbaum's fire in NYC - where very similar situations led to tragedy.
I've done plenty of roof work, and situationally I'm all about vertical ventilation.
This building is a BORN LOSER and we need to stay out of - and off of - the losers.
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White helmets make you invincible...didn't you know that?
Oh, wait a minute...I have a white helmet and I'm far from invincible.
Protecting yourself from fire is like protecting yourself from radiation.
Use Time, Distance, and Shielding.
For this fire, I think we need to consider the time the building has been burning, add distance between the firefighters and the fire, and then the shielding won't matter.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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I see three demensional heat puched smoke from a uncompartmented commercial occupancy. This says that there is a HUGE fire in this building and with the turbulence that it appaears to be coming behind it I belive fire will be presenting itself in this area very shortly. Smoke is even pushing through the building walls which could mean structual compromise but also leads you to belie that fire is coming at you soon.
This fire requires LARGE caliber hand lines being operated away from the building.
These guys are way to close my first action would be to move these guys back there is obviously no savable victims inside due to the heat and smoke and operating this medium caliber handline in this location is providing nothing more than a teddy bear effect on the fire ( it makes them feel good but it is doing nothing to the fire).
This fire seems to haver taken hold of the building and it is now truly a structure fire and not a contents fire. Back up flow big water and call the party wagon for some drinks and snacks.
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Robert, I agree that the fire inside is HUGE. That black smoke is BLACK FIRE, which means that it is vaporized hydrocarbons that are hot enough to ignite and just lack a spark. Smoke of that color, density, volume, and velocity has pushed into every nook and cranny of this building, and the fire is right behind it. A hint on this one is that ANY fuel in an enclosed structure can make smoke this color...the foam mattresses from the Sofa Super Store in Charleston, SC were putting out very similar smoke right before the whole place flashed over.
One question though, Robert. Don't you think that LARGE caliber handlines are too small for this one? :-)
I have nothing against 2.5 inch lines, but with those big old loading dock openings, we can hit this fire with portable monitors and deck pipes. That keeps the firefighters away and puts even more water power in place with less exposure to the troops.
I like the "teddy bear" comment, too. Mind if I quote you elsewhere?
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Your right deck guns would be way better but if your gonna go with a hand line you gotta go big.
Feel free to use that saying anywhere.
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Permalink Reply by Marc on
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Is it because of the photo, or does the smoke have a greenish-tint to it??
Also it looks like the wall to the left of the FF's looks as though there is smoke coming through!
i personaly would pull these guys and go Big, wagon batteries and 2 1/2 inch lines.
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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This fire is just ready to flash over. The 1 3/4 line is sorely inadequate for a what the ultimate operation should be. Exterior work only. This is a looser. Back everyone out and set up the master streams.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Westerman on
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First off the BC has no scba on in the hot zone,nor does he have gloves on, fire fighter and his Capt do not have their scba's donned properly. The attack line for the smoke volume is inadequate, the pressurized smoke shows imminent flash or smoke explosion, never turn your back to the fire as the Capt is in this graphic. The structure is showing signs of fatigue, cracks are visible through the smoke just above the BC's head. This one screams back up and vent if possible and bring big water to this fire fight. Stang gun through the opening, bring FF's back to a safer distance until knock down is achieved.
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