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Permalink Reply by Doug on December 12, 2009 at 2:31pm

Nobody seems to want to have a go at this one, I can see why, as you stated in your last paragraph, Christopher. But, I'll give it a shot since there are two buildings of this type, though differently shaped, in my immediate response area, and several more in mutual aid districts.

1. What are the Incident Priorities at this stage and what does the Incident Action Plan reflect?

1, life safety. 2, fire extinguishment.

2. What are the projected resources needs and why?

I'm calling for a second alarm immediately upon arrival, and probably going to eventually make a special request or two, multiple ambulances or maybe even upgrade to a full third alarm, due to high occupancy of this structure and dispatches transmission of multiple civilians in distress.


3. As the First-Due Engine company: What functions are your expected to initiate? What are YOU planning to do and why?

The first due engine in my immediate response area is going directly to the fire floor. Since the common area is protected and is where the elevator banks are, we're taking the elevator up, as this fire, from the outside, doesn't look to have spread from the room of origin yet. Once we reach the fire floor we'll transmit to command a better size-up, assist with any civilian evacuations we'll run into on the way, and hook up to the standpipe system.

4. Based upon what we know about the fire and its location, what can you expect the fire to do?

As long as nobody, firefighter or civilian, opens the wrong door, you can expect this fire to sit, not do much, extend into the hallway some, that's about it.

5. How will fire growth affect the operation in the various tactical areas?

One standpipe connection may/will not do the job, you will have to hook into multiple, on multiple floors, coordinating effort on fire suppression.

6. How would you organize the incident scene based upon the building configuration and layout?

As I stated, fire due engine is going to the fire floor, bringing all necessary tools with them, forget the spare bottles for now. Second due engine is making a forward lay from the hydrant to the standpipe connection, the crew is going to be split up into 2 and 2, engineer and one firefighter are going to hook up, the other two are going up to the 11th floor to begin search and rescue. The ladder truck is going to set up on the C-D corner and ladder the building, it appears it would reach to the 10th floor. The engineer is the only one staying with the truck, it will be set up for a secondary means of egress only. The three truckies are going to the fire floor for search and rescue.

The 2 alarm units will report to command, which is set up outside. Command will then appoint a staging officer from the 2nd alarm, probably another BC, as all resources from the 1st alarm are working. Fire suppression and search and rescue staging, and rehab will all be set up on the 9th floor in the protected common area. This is when you bring up the spare bottles. Two firefighters from an engine co. on the 2nd alarm will hook into the standpipe to provide a back-up line. The other two will assist in search and rescue on the floors above the fire floor. The other engine co. on the 2nd alarm will stand-by as RIT. The ladder co. on the 2nd alarm will split into 2 and 2, and again, assist with search and rescue on the floors above the fire floor. At the point, 1 engine co. and 1 ladder co. will be special called for relief. I would also evacuate the staging floor and the 8th floor. Residents on floors 7 and below, at this point, can shelter in place. Police can assist with this.

All residents that are evacuated are going to be shuffled towards the elevator banks, seeing the size of this building and the amount of occupants I'm going to assume there are at least 2, and the C side stairwell. One elevator will be in fire department control at all times. The D side stairwell door at the ground floor will remain shut during the entire operation. I'm going to place a police officer there to ensure that, and explain to him why, and he will then in-turn explain to any civilians why if they give him a hard time. For those of you that don't know, the stairwell acts like a chimney flue, you will definitely feel a strong breeze on the upper floors if this ground floor door is opened, that can be bad news, fanning the flames. Use the stairwell farthest from the fire, in this case, the C side stairwell door. The only doors that should be open on the D side stairwell are the fire floor, 8th floor, and roof access if there is one. This will allow for a natural ventilation.

7. What are your thoughts on firefighting operations in these types of structures: what are your experiences, challenges or questions?

First, I'm sure I'm forgetting something, or many things. And I probably even got something wrong. Second, these are very challenging fires, especially if it's too dangerous to use the elevators and most of your energy is exerted just making your way up to the fire floor. I do have some, actually minimal, experience with fire in these types of structures. While there are several in my immediate and mutual aid response areas we don't get many actual fires, mostly just false alarms.

A question I do have is, what is a good way to ventilate these types of buildings other than naturally, as I stated? Is PPV good or bad? I've heard both. If it's done properly, which is tricky in these types of buildings, I suppose it is good.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on December 13, 2009 at 4:42pm

I can't believe no one else has replied to this! Come on boys and girls, don't be scared.

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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on December 13, 2009 at 5:14pm

I ain't shmart nuff yet to reshpond to dish kinda shinario. We ain't got nunna thesh bildins here.
Sry..just messin around. I'm not ready to respond to these yet. I'm still in the learning stages of tactics. This one in particular scares me. Not good for in depth analysis. But it doesn't look like there's a lot of smoke. Oh, wait, I just re-read the description and saw that the window is slightly open. Still, there's not a lot of it and it's not very dark at all. Couldn't ya take a team and hook up to the standpipe and go in? Have a couple teams to evacuate that floor and the next few floors above just in case. Then check to see if the fire has spread. I dunno, to me this doesn't look to serious. But then again, I can't see behind that wall. And when people call in about smoke and fire, it's always the largest they've ever seen. But ya just never know, until you're there.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on December 13, 2009 at 5:47pm

Hahaha. Houkd on foniques werk'd fur meee!

Seriously,
I agree with you that this fire does not appear to be that large or too serious at this point, and get a fire suppression team up there as quickly as possible to tackle it before it gets out of control.

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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on December 14, 2009 at 10:48pm

It seems as though the regulars to these posts have gone awol. Would be nice to see more points of view.

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Permalink Reply by Doug on December 14, 2009 at 11:15pm

Indeed. Tis the season though, they're probably busy with real life and family stuff.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on December 14, 2009 at 11:38pm

1. What are the Incident Priorities at this stage and what does the Incident Action Plan reflect?

RECEO. Rescue anyone in immediate danger, Exposures/Confinement, keep the fire in the apt of orgin, Extinguish, put the fire out, Overhaul, ensure the fire is completely out.

2. What are the projected resources needs and why?

Chances are 12 isn't enough personnel here and this would go to a second alarm on our dept. Although the first alarm would bring another engine with a crew of 4. You need an attack team, back up, RIT and crews just to rotate, plus crews to address the life safety needs. You have people on the affected floor and floor above for priorities.

3. As the First-Due Engine company: What functions are your expected to initiate? What are YOU planning to do and why?

First in pump would obtain hi-rise packs and tools, hook into the standpipe on the floor below the fire floor and be fire attack. Being a FF, I'm grabbing the irons and hi-rise load, and hand lantern.

4. Based upon what we know about the fire and its location, what can you expect the fire to do?

It doesn't really indicate the construction type, just that built in early 80's and had renovations and common areas are protected. Protected with what? Sprinkler? Fire doors? Fire stops? Since it does state this is a pre-planned building, the hi-rise buildings in our city are of type 1 construction, some with sprinklers, some without. If this was us, we would know this to be a type 1 and the fire should remain contained to the original apartment, but the concern would be above the fire, fire can spread through the window outside.

5. How will fire growth affect the operation in the various tactical areas?

For the most part more resources may be needed, but as mentioned the fire should remain contained to the original apartment, but it is possible if spread to the next floor, you need to send more resources to handle the fire on each floor.

7. What are your thoughts on firefighting operations in these types of structures: what are your experiences, challenges or questions?

Sometimes the biggest challenge is to stay focused with the job task. Part of the training with our dept as well as similar depts of our size may focus upon life safety and if encountering a victim, may want to focus on the rescue. Whereas in such a situation like this the control of the fire IS the best way to ensure life safety. The challenges will be the life safety situation and you may find many people who are immobilized which is typically why a second alarm would be called for right away.

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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on December 15, 2009 at 9:47am

that is true. Should have thought of that. thnx.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on December 19, 2009 at 7:20pm

Considering we have been here numerous times (realistic for sure!) we SOULD have a good knowledge of the building and locations of vital building equipment and information. We have what appears to be one apartment involved. With fire showing from the street, and knowing that the individual units are NOT suppressed, we should expect to have serious involvement beyond what presents us by the time we get our first line in place. We also should expect auto-exposure to be a serious factor.

Experience with high-rise fires should tell us that we will have to pair at leaset two engine companies together to effectively stretch our attack lines. We also cannot tell if the fire has extended to the hallway yet, and if the doors to the fire apartment are open, or shut. Smoke spread is a major concern to the floors above, as is fire, heat, snd smoke to the involved floor. This indicates a labor-intensive operation, with incident command, and accountability being of major concern.

Considering the floors of the fire floor, and the floors above MUST be searched, we will need to assign search groups to each floor. As found to be proven effective in the Chicago high rise incidents and studies, assigning evacuation groups will assist greatly in ensuring the occupants are directed tothe best possible means of egress, away from the designated stairwell for fire attack.

We also know that this will be extremely physically-intense for those involved in suppression. Given the tactical positions needed, as well as the incident command requirements, we must provide for a fourth-alarm assignment, initially, if given the 'two and one' as an alarm assignment.

Strategically, we will need to locate, confine, and control, and then extinguish the fire...to put it simply. That will involve assigning a lobby command and control group, to verify the location and extent of the fire, the status of the elevators, and access to vital building information, and hopefully, a building manager, maintenence supervisor, and any security officers. The use of camera's, if avaialble (survailence) will be of help in monitorin upper floor conditions. Hopefully a lsi of tenenats will be avaialbale, as well as a public address system. A 'defend in place' strategy should be used to shelter in place residents of lower floors, so that primary searh and evacuations of those exposed to smoke, and heat of the upper floors can be evacuated without hinderence of those who are not in any danger, or immediate danger.
A unified command may be valuable, considering EMS is of extreme importence. This incident would require a heavy assignment on EMS or firefighter, and occupant assistence, as well as to provide any evacuee's and shelter-in-place individuals who may have special medical needs.

We will need to position our apparatus out of the immediate area of falling or blowing glass, and other debris. Vigilence in monitoring wind speeds and directions will be important to the IC. One of the first-alarm engines must connect to the FDC.
Each department differs to a degree as to who is assigned lobby, who is assigned to staff the forward command post, and what duties of each individual companies will be. In this case, the BC can assume lobby command, and will need to be assisted by at least one firefighter initially, although the lobby position may well require an entire company to staff it properly. Control of the elevators for fire department use are of vital importence, and a priority.
If the elevator can be captured safely, and there are no signs of fire, smoke, or water flow in the shaft, the intial crews MAY elect to use an elevator, checking the FD service every three floors, to exit at floor 8. Ideally a firefighter with SCBA, a spare cylinder, radio, and irons should be assigned to the elevator. I am fully aware of the pro's and con's, and arguments for and against elevators use in high rise fires.

Regardless of how we access the fire floor, we need to get there! The BC in the lobby should access the public address system and give the appropriate information, such as who to remain in place, and that the fire department is on scene and enroute to aid those in distress, with directions towards an evac stairwell.

Foward staging area located on 8th. floor. Crews will acess floor below fire, make size-up of area and room layout, with approximate distances to fire room origin, and number of doors or rooms along hallway, as a guide, although the fire floor MAY be of a different layout. Standpipe will be addressed, once attack stairwell has been designated. First-in Truck Company would have been sent immediately to locate area of fire, and effect any obvious, immediate rescues possible. Communication to command would allow for designation of attack point. Standpipe on the floor below is made, using 200' of 2.5" hose with 1 & 1/8" smooth bore tip. (use of smaller line, especially in non-suppressed apartments, will only ensure prolonged difficulties in gaining control) Line will bestretched, and flaked with excess on landing above, to assist in 'feeding' line for advancement. Use of in-line pressure gauge and additional stand-pipe equipment will ensure proper operating pressures are available. Firefighter assigned to standpipe position will check for presence of flow restrictors, and PRD's. Valve will be opened and flow-tested prior to completeing connection. Firefighters will place strategically on hose line to faciliate smoothest advance possible.

Upon arrival of additonal companies, Officer will be assigned to work with maintenece or supervisor in located, and operating HVAC systems to limit smoke spread, and fire spread through duct work. Control of utilities should also be assigned to truck company for affected floors and area.

IC positions assigned and filled as personnel become avaialble: Command post- in Lobby, Tactical Commad Post: floor below, or two floors below fire floor. Base staging: Exterior for apparatus and company staging, for companie's not yet assigned, in parking areas, or streets away from hazards of glass or other hazards. Staging: Located at, or near Tact Command pOst. Lobby Control: First-in BC, or other company offcer. Exterior Observation Officer: assigned to Officer to monitor exterior posotions and fire conditions. Safety Officers: Oversee accountability, and to plan for rehab sector. Medical Command: unified command position, desigated to plan, coordinate, and control medical operations. Equipment Resource Manger: Logistics including procuring equipment, and avaialbility of reserve equipment.

As is the case in most all fire incidents, we need to control the fire to make MOST of our problems go away. However smoke spread, and occupany accountability and evacuation are also difficult under these conditions. Ventilation may be difficult, and may require a PPV approach using stairwells. However a truck company will be assigned to the roof, to locate, and access any natural ventilaion points. The hoseline crew will committ to making the hallway, being cautious to maintain orientation to distance in the hallway. Doors to apartments located before the fire apartment should be forced, on the same side as the fire, to provide for an area of refuge, should the fire suddenly extend to the hallway. Additioanlly, those rooms closet to the fire will be of primary concern during the initial search. Smoke conditions in the hallway should be expected to be severe, especially with sprinklers activated.

The second attack line, of the same size, length, and calibre, should be in place to back-up the first line, and provide covrgae for those making the hallway. Under MOST normal conditions, the attack line of 2.5" size SHOULD be capable of confining, and controlling a furnished apartment withing the confines of a high -rsie building provided masonary walls seperate each unit. Again, it should be stressed that to begin an attack with anything smaller than the 2.5" line is dangerous, to say the very least. Considering the heat, and amount of time and labor required to access the fire 10 floors above the ground, and the limited ventilation, the heat will be punishing, and this is NO place or time for a prolonged firefight battle using too small a hoseline.
Observation and close monitoring of wind changes and fire spread conditions are extremely important. There MUST be sevarl areas of refuge established, given each direction of retreat available. Ventialtion via natural openings of the fire floor, and the floors above, working with wind conditions must be coordinated and communicated. Sufficient search and rescue groups must be available and assigned to complete both primary, and secondary searches of fire floor, and floors above, in his case two floors above. Smoke conditions found during intial size-up of these floors will usually indicate degree of exposure to occupants.

Designation of radio frequencies, RIC teams, and frequent PAR checks round-out the standard operational procedures that should account for all operating personnell. Of course 1 hour air cylinders help out termendously. Each firefighter must bring a spare cylinder in with him/her.

Each firefighter, upon exiting the firef loor, and completing operations, will be sent to, and evaluated by EMS in the rehab sector.

Gotta go...DAMN!

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on December 19, 2009 at 7:33pm

Chris, if this was ours, we'd have one or two sprinkler heads off and a water removal problem. We require all high-rises to be fully sprinklered, so this particular problem would be very unlikely here unless we had a sprinkler system out of service.

If local communities don't have a sprinklery ordinance, high-rise structures - especially high-rise residential structures - are a great place to start.

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