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Should First or Second Engine Lay In?
I was recently on the phone with a friend from a neighboring fire department and we got on the subject of laying in at a structure fire. My department practices first in engine laying in his practices second in engine laying in. I am looking for feed back. I am thinking about reccomending to my department having the second in engine lay in. looking for good feedback.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pararescue on
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Using your tank water even if your carrying 1500 gal of water, your going to loose water in 2-3 minutes. getting a feed in 15 minutes? You better stay defensive. Remember, just like the Marines, adapt and over come. Classes and books are great, but only a guide line. No fire is ever text book.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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We have both lay out. 1st due lays out and go through the front to the fire floor. 2nd due lays out to the rear and checks the basement. 3rd due secures 1st due water supply. 4th does 2nd dues. 5th due takes RIT engine. 1st due truck takes front, 2nd takes rear. Rescue Squad parks near front for search and rescue.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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An automobile fire you should be able to extinguish with your tank as well as a mobile home fire
I've been to more than my fair share of mobile home fires and many of them have extended to the next trailer. I would be very cautious about suggesting that tank water is sufficient for a trailer fire.
My old department that we MA with now has a couple parks with no or only 1 or 2 hydrants. Our tanker is first out on those alarms.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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It depends on so many variables that it would be near impossible to give a straight answer.....I think second engine should lay in to the 1st primary attack engine....1st engine gets on scene rapidly and the IC can make the call whether to go to Fast Attack mode, initiate search teams or whatever....But it would depend on conditions and resources available....Many smaller Departments have mutual aid companies lay in to them and operate off the onboard tank and portable ponds....others do not.....
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Holy crap capt. How many resources do you guys have...?
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Permalink Reply by Brian G on
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I am a retired Lieutenant, but our SOP required 2cd due engine to lay in unless you are a short distance from hydrant (50 ft). Generally speaking this procedure is up to your department based on company location, manpower and response time of second due companies. However, I feel that with today's tank size and hose diameter, you probaly can make quite a difference if your first in starts the attack. Sometimes by arriving without stopping to drop a line you may be able to effect a rescue or at least hold the fire in check until civilians can exit safely. As always, if you decide to go in with limited water, communication is key and you should be prepare to exit if necessary to protect your firefighters .
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Permalink Reply by Ron King (Fire Chief) on
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It does depend on the Incident. A large Incident with lots of fire and smoke showing first engine lay line. If no fire or smoke showing you will have the water needed on first truck. If more water is needed the second engine can lay line and then feed first truck. With the nozzles we have now we can put out lots of fire with a small amount of water. Training is so important. Large amounts of water is not always the answer.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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I think one thing people are forgetting is apparatus placement. Even in urban settings alot of times room for apparatus is at a minimum....if you are trying to leave the front for the truck as you should you are taking up alot of realestate if your second engine has to lay to the first.
Also think about your assignment on a working fire....how many engines do you have responding? If the first lays out and the second due hooks them to the hydrant then you only need 2 engines to get a continous supply of water. If the second due lays out for the first in then you need the third engine to complete your water supply....how many of you have 3 engines coming on a house fire? I know we dont we get 2 engines and a 2 special service companies on the initial to a working residential fire.....we only get the third if we call for an upgrade....I know of other FDs that do not even get that so waiting for that other engine is not an option.
Just my 2 cents.
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Permalink Reply by Francis L. Cook Jr. on
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Well lets see, you get tapped out for a reported residential structure fire. While enroute, dispatch advises of mutilple calls. Several blocks away you advise responding units you have smoke showing from your present location. Now, you know it is a "working fire"... Are you not going to lay in or what? Come on Bro...Whether the Dept. has SOPs' stating 2nd due in lays in or not...drop that supply line....period. Just remember your 360 and the 2 in and 2 out.
Clear? No harm or punns intended. Its' all good...we all are still learning...Be safe my Bro.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Anderson on
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That's basicly the way we do it. If the house is a distance from the road the first in will either drive or back in, drop either an apartment lay or pre-connect. If we drop the apartment lay the engineer pulls back to the road and either connects to a relay engine, tanker, or drafts from a porta tank. If we pull a pre-connect we set up a tank next to the engine if there's enough room or lay a line back to the road to a relay engine or tanker. If we use a relay it either connects to a tanker or drafts from a tank. Both of our engines are 1000 gal. tanks, so we have enough water for a quick attack while waiting for a supply source.
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Permalink Reply by danny krush on
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why are you worried about a fan. they should be used when the fire is out to vent push freah air in and assit with ventalation during overhaul not a task of the 1st due engine.
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Permalink Reply by kara-lee allen on
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our number one priority is to secure a water sourse. First engine in sets the table. we do NOT play with fire unless there is certainty for water.. who knows when second engine will get there.... they might get delayed.. looks pretty stupid when we start fighting fire then run outta water, or firefighter down and no water to launch a RIT campaign. once we all set up, we can fight the fire all night! plus usually need extra hands anyway. we dont make entry without at least 6 in BA and a pump op.
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