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Should a volunteer be forced into doing something they don't feel comfortable with?
My questions to anyone is this:
Should a volunteer member be forced into doing something that they don't feel comfortable with? What if they are being told that if they do not do this, they will no longer be a member of the department?
Here's what it going on (just to paint you the picture)...a member of the department who is medical only is now being told that if they do not do something, they will not be allowed to be a member anymore. This person gave up fighting "The Beast" a few years back due to an incident on a grass fire gone wrong. After that incident they gave up firefighting and pursued medical.
This person has been doing medical for 6 yrs now and there has never been an issue with that. Now, they are being told that they also have to become a firefighter again. Once again, if they do not follow this, they cannot be a member of the department. The issue cannot be taken to someone higher, i.e. county fire marshal, as he is the acting chief of the department during re-organization. The new S.O.G.'s for the county state that all members must be at least FF1 certified AND at least FR; preferably EMT-B.
The acting chief has been made aware of the circumstances as to why this person does not do firefighting anymore. He said he understands the reason, but that was as far as it went. Now, I'm not saying that an exception has to be made to accomidate for this, but if someone has the desire to help out their community as a medical responder, shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Shouldn't their loyalty in that part of the department be enough?
Yes, this person could leave the department, but it is the only other medical unit in the county that is run on a volunteer basis (2 other departments have medical units, but both are in the cities). The other county volunteer fire departments are just that, fire only.
In your opinion, what do you think that this member should say and/or do? Should they just walk away from something they love to do, or try to fight this battle and see where it goes? I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this. Any and all ideas/opinions would be greatly appreciated on this issue.
Laura
Should a volunteer member be forced into doing something that they don't feel comfortable with? What if they are being told that if they do not do this, they will no longer be a member of the department?
Here's what it going on (just to paint you the picture)...a member of the department who is medical only is now being told that if they do not do something, they will not be allowed to be a member anymore. This person gave up fighting "The Beast" a few years back due to an incident on a grass fire gone wrong. After that incident they gave up firefighting and pursued medical.
This person has been doing medical for 6 yrs now and there has never been an issue with that. Now, they are being told that they also have to become a firefighter again. Once again, if they do not follow this, they cannot be a member of the department. The issue cannot be taken to someone higher, i.e. county fire marshal, as he is the acting chief of the department during re-organization. The new S.O.G.'s for the county state that all members must be at least FF1 certified AND at least FR; preferably EMT-B.
The acting chief has been made aware of the circumstances as to why this person does not do firefighting anymore. He said he understands the reason, but that was as far as it went. Now, I'm not saying that an exception has to be made to accomidate for this, but if someone has the desire to help out their community as a medical responder, shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Shouldn't their loyalty in that part of the department be enough?
Yes, this person could leave the department, but it is the only other medical unit in the county that is run on a volunteer basis (2 other departments have medical units, but both are in the cities). The other county volunteer fire departments are just that, fire only.
In your opinion, what do you think that this member should say and/or do? Should they just walk away from something they love to do, or try to fight this battle and see where it goes? I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this. Any and all ideas/opinions would be greatly appreciated on this issue.
Laura
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Jake,
I would have thought that a "threshold" ff would be a transitional stage, from exterior to interior, or I suppose it could be the "next" level up as "firefighter", you know as in:
exterior,
threshold,
interior,
roof,
basement,
sunny day,
rainy/snowy day,
daytime,
nighttime,
any time, any place, anywhere, real firefighter (hmm maybe this is the paid/career level).
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Permalink Reply by Kayli Borell on
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Yes, this is a very tough one. I sometimes feel as if I were in a prediciment like this myself. As an example my dept is volunteer n when we went through FF2 certification we had to climb the arial or we wouldnt be able to pass and become certified. I was honestly was very terrified. I had to have someone climb the aerial with me and have them talk me and coach me into going all the way to the top. I tensed up n froze, I then had charlie horses in the muscles of my legs. It was terrible. Ive told a few people about this and they told me that if I werent comfortable doing something like this than I shouldnt have done it. It was my life. It doesnt help that I was 1 of the 2 females in the class either so of course the rest were all guys n it was like a big competition. It also doesnt help that I have a fear of heights either. Climbing a ladder to the side of a building is fine but an aerial....uhh u better guess again. We have had a few FF's from my FD trapped inside of a burning building n there company left them there. They are terrified to try the fire side again. yes it is a dangerous job but that shouold definitly not have happened. Im not sure as to what happend with your friend during that fire but i dnt blame em for not wanting to do the fire side after something like that. I think that it should be enough that they are at least sticking with the medical side. They are still willing to try the medical side and stick with the dept. If things dont go well I would pack my stuff n find another dept. Better yet i also contact the highest ranking person...someone not afillitated with the dept and i guess you would call it turning them in bc they should not be treating volunteers like that. your a volunteer for goodness sake. I know of ppl who have gotten ambulance services shut down bc of something similar to this. Has your friend talked to any other members of the dept bout this? well best of luck!
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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Am I reading this right? Someone had to hold your hand on the way up the ladder and you actually got certified?
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WP, apparently so.
We have had a few FF's from my FD trapped inside of a burning building n there company left them there. Wouldn't that be your own people that left them in there? WTF?
Better yet i also contact the highest ranking person...someone not afillitated with the dept and i guess you would call it turning them in bc they should not be treating volunteers like that. your a volunteer for goodness sake.
I think this bears repeating -
"your a volunteer for goodness sake."
No honey, you volunteered when you walked in and signed the papers. Papers which, I might add (and perhaps an oath?) said you were signing up to be a firefighter for your community. Do you think your community wants to read what you just wrote? That "your a volunteer for goodness sake" and no way should anyone make you do something you don't want to do. Really? Making you climb a ladder was cruel and inhumane yet you'll willingly go into a burning structure (ground level of course and only if it doesn't mess your hair.)
And you want to make a career out of this? And when things don't go your way, are you going to go to some 'higher' authority, outside of your department, to whine and complain about how unfair it is that you are being required to do something you don't want to do? This is the future of the fire service!?
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Permalink Reply by larry jenkins on
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I work in a combination department and we have some volunteers who are EMS only. My 1st thought was let them do only the EMS sfuff. I'm sure there are plenty of people who only want to do the fire stuff, but do the EMS because we have to. This would allow the EMS to do what I don't like to do. To me it's a win, win situation. If they were being paid to perform and refused then that would be a different story but volunteering is different. In our system of 41 departments only a few are have volunteers who still ride. Even those are few and far between. Face it the majority of our calls are EMS so why not get all the help you can get.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Well, Jack; I tried. I really, really tried to stay out of this one. She seemed like a nice lady, but I read her profile and figured out that it was the old "I have this friend who needs advice" story.
Anyway, I'll get right to the chase.
We are a small volunteer department. We run fire, rescue and medical first response. Medical first response is voluntary at this point. Everything else is required. When new members join, they are told that. "No; we do not pick and choose what we do or what calls we go on".
If your organization is so loose that the members can pick and choose what they do, then you have serious issues. If you take someone who can only do something on a limited basis, then how is THAT fair to the few workhorses who train, go to classes, practice their skills and make as many calls as they can?
Why does any department want the liability that comes with someone who cannot perform to NFPA standards or fire department SOPs?
When you are on a volunteer fire department, because of the dynamic known as "who will show up this time", you have to have people who are multi/crossed trained. If you don't, then something doesn't get done.
The double LODD in West Virginia earlier this year is an example of people not showing up for initial assignment, not filling a RIT because no one there that day was qualified, not getting water on the fire right away because pump operator didn't know the truck was in the wrong gear, no assigned Safety Officer and on and on. "But, they were only a volunteer fire department".
Wake up, people. When the chips are down, "we are just volunteers", but when we want to get into our little discussions with other fire departments, then we are ALL the same. NO; WE ARE NOT. And in many cases, be glad that you are not.
As long as departments are willing to take people who can walk upright (with or without difficulty), breathe without assistance of nasal canula and can lean against a pike pole without falling over, congratulations; U R A farfarter.
And we wonder...
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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lol you had me mesmorized then you started ranting and then i started laughing and when you got to the U R A farfarter I fell out of my chair
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Pretty much shows how pathetic it can be. Join the local fire company and dictate what you will, and will not do? I am afraid of heights, so I won't climb, but dammit I can sure stretch hose. That's great! Until you are one of the only ones who arrives to find people hanging out of the second or third floor...or higher. So then, it's wait...wait...I know I LOOK like a firefighter, but just hang on until one who isn't afraid of fire, or isn't afarid to climb arrives, and THEN, maybe you'll have a chance!
But no...there's no difference. We're ALL "professionals", right?
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Permalink Reply by EngineLadder on
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Agree.... some people just need to take there helmet and turn it upside down and read the label..."firefighting is and ultra dangerus...." if people can not deal with that then they should not be firefighters.
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I used to be a volly and now I am career firefighter. Every time that I go to work my shift, I know that I my not make it back home. Firefighting is not a safe job people get hurt, people die, we see some realy fucked up shit, if you cant deal with that do not be a firefighter and if for some godforsaken reason you fell thru the cracks and are already a firefighter please quit and do some other hobby or profession.
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blair:
If you understand it, you should not fear it.
Rather, you should respect it.
Think about it. We feel pretty safe as long as the fire is in front of us and we have water coming out of the nozzle right?
What we fear is failure. We fear that we will not make a difference in the outcome.
We fear that we will let our communities and our fellow firefighters down.
I can't say with certainty that I was ever afraid of fire.
Working an MVA on the interstate? Now; that's scary.
TCSS.
Art
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OK, this discussion is all over the place. This is my department, which is probably not that much different from yours but here it is. But the fact is not every person out there is going to go the distance when the sh-- hits the fan. All of our FF's and medics are trained to the minimum. We are all firefighters and emt's. Some have chosen the ems side and are paramedics, the others stay in suppression and go up the career ladder this way. I run with other companies with both firefighters and medics each day. There are quite a few of those who I would not trust with my life. My shift trains at least two to three hours each day and I think I have the best shift out there, bar none. I have damm good firefighters calling me to come work with my shift and I keep a list so when a spot opens up I can fill it. But face it, not everyone will go inside when they are suppose to, volunteer or paid. They always find some way to be a yard man never going inside and you know what, that is fine with me. That gives me more time to be inside to do the real job. Yes, we need people outside and if that's where you want to be I don't care. I'm not dangerous or careless but this gives me more experience to make better decissions next time. My guys go home safe the next day and we have a blast doing what we do. All of the chiefs around us know what we can do and usually will give us the line to go inside than some outside job. As far as the volunteers go, our situation is different. Our volunteers don't do anything so we don't expect anything out of them. That's just the way our system works. It may not be perfect but we have a few (very few) ems vollies only. On open house day they all come around and tell the public that they serve 24/7 when the fact is they only run BINGO.
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