what is everybodies departments rules about shaving and packing up. im just curious cause our department doesnt really have a rule or sop regarding this, but i have heard of it being a rule in other dep. that you have to be clean shaven or you cant pack up.
If that is your SOP and everyone is aware of that, then I have no problem with your FD. Except, that it is pretty hard for me to determine what is 3 days worht of growth on you or any other member. That leaves alot to be personal opinion. But thanks for the response.
WHY IS IT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND SAFETY AND REGULATORY ISSUES. PARDON ME, BUT I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE A VERY FEW, AND ARE ALWAYS WANTING TO GO AGAINST WHAT IS RIGHT. NEXT, YOU'LL BE COMPLAINING YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WEAR YOUR HELMETS OR BUNKER GEAR OR USE YOUR SCBA'S. Terry, Sr.
OK....let me put it this way....We were running training evolutions for Departments county wide at the training center....a New York State OFPC person arrived and raised hell...one or two of the people weren't clean shaven....they were not allowed to complete their training and were told that they either had to shave then complete the training or would not be granted a certificate for the classes.....its not open for discussion....its THE RULE...like it or not...IT IS THE RULE...as some might say...its their game...play by the rules or don't play....No-one forced you to enter this field...you did that on your own knowing the risks, and knowing there is a lot of rules and regulations...those rules and regulations aren't there just to fill pages..they are there to give you the best opportunity to go home after an incident or fire....Grow up people (meant for a few) Stay safe and keep the faith.....Paul
WHEN I WORKED AT A POWDER COATING FIRM, A COMPANY REP CAME IN TO DO TEST FITS FOR THE EMPLOYEES. IF YOU HAD A BEARD, YOU HAD TO SHAVE IT OFF. OTHERWISE, THE MASK WAS NOT GOING TO FIT PROPERLY TO GET THE CORRECT SEAL. THIS WAS AN OSHA REG BESIDES THAT. AND IF YOU DID NOT WANT TO SHAVE, YOU WERE NOT GOING TO BE EMPLOYED MUCH LONGER WITH THE FIRM. THE COMPANY HAS TO FOLLOW THE RULES & REGULATIONS NOT ONLY OF OSHA, BUT OF THIER REGULAR INSURANCE CARRIER WHO GO BY WHAT OSHA SAYS.
I'm with you on that point Shareef - how can someone define 'three days growth'? Some people I've known could almost have a full beard in that time, whereas with me it would barely be visible.
For your own issue, all testing can do is show that at the time of the test you were able to get a seal. What about the next day, or the next? Is your beard trimmed every day? Should you be able to be tested every day? Here there is no testing done - you can't be a career firefighter and have any sort of beard. You can be a volunteer, but not be a structural firefighter.
As long as we have guys willing to show up and fight fires and put their lives on the line, We let them make that decision on their own, we ( www.waylandvfd.webs.com ) can't afford to lose good quality people over a beard or mustache.
Paul, I understand your point. But, once again, all I am saying is that perhaps some of the "rules" are outdated and not in sync with our technology. We should evaluate our rules, regulations, guidelines, and nost of all our closemindedness to ensure that we are not just following past precidence that was based in miseducation. And as far as you passing judgement on a person and them entering this career, many of us actually grow and mature as we get older and in this growing our beliefs may become deeper and more convicted. I can only hope and pray that our level of understanding grows as we get older. Wouldn't you agree?
Tony P., I understand what you said about testing, but it ha to start somewhere. Testing would only open the door to mature and educated dialogue. For example, an agreed upon length for a beard should be discussed if a fit test is passed. But please allow me this opportunity to apologize for anyone who I may have offended. No offense was intended. I would also like to apologize for drifting away from Mike's original post about SOP's and shaving. I am not here to cry, whine, or steal the stage. I was just very interested in the opinions.
FETC, thank you for your point. No, my FD does not own a fit test machine. You are very fortunate to be at an FD who can afford this luxury. And your point about the positive pressure was very well stated. Thanks