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Self Dispatch Or Insurance Co. Saving Scratch - Discussion Thread.
On April 16, 2005, Andover, IA volunteer firefighter Justin Faur attempted to rescue a co-worker who had fallen into a manure pit at his place of employment. Both men later died.
At issue with the fire department’s workers compensation insurance carrier was whether Faur was acting as a firefighter or as an employee as a result of his efforts to save his co-worker. The insurance company (Travelers) contended that Faur was not acting as a firefighter at the time.
Initially, a deputy workers compensation commissioner ruled that Faur was both at the time.
Travelers appealed to the Iowa Supreme Court and the Court sided with Travelers.
So, when is a volunteer firefighter “on duty” and at what point is a volunteer firefighter NOT a private citizen, but is “responding” to an emergency?
Here is my blog on the issue:
http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blogs/self-dispatch-or-in...
What do you think?
TCSS.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nate on
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when the pager goes off for your station, for your call, you are on duty. other than that, you are just another person. That is why call-jumping is becoming such a big deal. Always try to help those in need, but you are not on duty until duty calls (cheesy play on words i know)
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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So he would have been better off waiting for his pager to go off, then react? (on the insurance side of this I mean) He initiated the 911 call, and it was going to be his dept. that would respond. To me, from that point on, he was "on the clock".
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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agree-sadily but agree, i hope the department can come through for the deceased member and bust the insurance company. if we thing think this bad, wait until this health care thing goes throiugh
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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I believe a Volunteer is "On Duty" the moment they are responding to a call for service. Now whether you respond to your Department and arrive on your Department apparatus or you respond from your home to the scene you are covered according to your Departments policies, insurance and workman's comp. If you were not called and you self dispatched in my mind you would simply be a civilian attempting to aid a fellow citizen an therefore not covered by our Department insurance or workman's comp. Ask that question of your leadership and know before you go.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Derek:
The blog was getting little discussion.
The same blog at another website is burning up.
I just want to see some opinions on this, since the scope could widen and more "definitions" rendered by the courts.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I do not want to start a war over who is on duty more, but Art you mention that volunteers are theoretically available 24 hrs a day. Your terminology of a volunteer is available... and not "on duty".
I actually agree with your concern here over the definition. From what I understand his family was compensated for the maximum. You are concerned with the afternath of the definition.
In my opinion, the definition should calculate his DUTY TO ACT. Did Faur have one? Did he have a jurisdictional duty to act? if yes then he should be considered on duty when attempting the rescue. In this case specifically, sounds like he was attempting to rescue his co-worker in the capacity of a firefighter (jurisdictional). He requested someone else call 911, sadly emotion drove an immediate attempt. Taking time to do a good sizeup would have identified the need to further tools, equipment and PPE to act as a professional rescuer but that is for another discussion. This case of definition is the insurance company trying to reduce future settlement costs... all about $$$.
But if your not in your jurisdiction (no duty to act), let's say you stop to assist at a car accident in another state while vacationing and were killed by another passing car or better yet all the guys who self dispatched to the pile and are now suffering lung problems..., we would not be having this same discussion of on duty or off duty. You would theroetically be a well trained civilian assisting the public in a good samaritan way, but it would not be a LODD.
The use of "available" and "on duty" should never be mixed, I know many available guys who choose to never respond unless it is on fire...
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Powers on
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As I read this article, all I could think about was another famous case where duty to act has drawn some headlines.
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From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580780,00.html
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NEW YORK — Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Monday blasted two emergency medical technicians accused of refusing to help a pregnant woman who had collapsed in the coffee shop where they were taking a break. The woman and her baby later died.
Bloomberg said refusing to help goes against human decency.
"There's no excuse whatsoever," he said.
>>>>
On one side of the coin, we are being told that you need to be dispatched to make a legal duty to act, and on the other you can be chastised for not acting without the duty. This damned if you do, damned if you don't attitude certainly hinders the recruitment efforts in smaller communities. It also builds a culture that is telling our firefighters that you can not do right no matter what side of the line you are on, so you might as well do what you want and deal with the consequences later. This lack of consistency raises us to be willing to sidestep the rules in order to act in the manner that we are born with, the desire to help others in need. The fire service has made great strides over the years to instill the need for safety and use of best practices, but these political and judicial antics counteract the deeds done by those that are trying to keep us safe.
If I drive up on an incipient grass fire, notify dispatch and put it out before the tone goes off. Was I not acting as a firefighter? If I see a flue fire at night and assist the occupants in extinguishing it, and do not have it toned out because I know it will wake 5 of our men, am I not acting as a firefighter? If I drive up onto a car vs. moose, and the driver needs a direct pressure to keep him from expiring before the ambulance can get on scene, am I not acting as a firefighter?
I submit that I am acting as a firefighter whenever in my response district and I am rendering aid as would be standard issue from my department, or when outside of my district, when rendering aid in a manner that is in compliance with industry standard practices and applicable laws up until the time where responders with a duty to act come on scene.
As for entering the IDLH without SCBA on, I think you would have to ask the department officers what their response would be if they arrived and all SCBA on the truck were not working. If they would attempt the rescue with knowledge that the pit contained CO, and thought the risk/benefit would line up in their favor, I would say that Faur was acting as a firefighter. If the department would return to station to get more equipment, or would request additional assistance before attempting rescue, then Faur was acting outside the parameters of the department.
I feel for his family but I believe that 2 1/2 years as a volunteer does not make one a singular authority on decision making within a department. Looking back of course there could have been a different way, but if this was a knowledgeable and acceptable risk, then he was acting in the line of duty.
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FETC:
When I say that, theoretically, a volunteer firefighter is "available" 24 hours a day, that is exactly what I mean.
If he has no life, no job, no other family members, no outside interests other than the fire department, sits on the fire department apron waiting for the pager to go off, then he is closer to "on duty" than available.
Someone like me would be "available" when not at work or out of town on business.
Without "in service" or "on duty" schedules, it is difficult to know who is and isn't available.
So, we both know that manpower is a crapshoot during the initial phase of a call.
Oh, there might be other "reasons" for not being available, but there IS a difference between "available" and "on-duty" and I was merely pointing that out.
Where my issue comes in is being officially notified, dispatched or better yet; when is there a duty to act?
Which leads to: when is a volunteer firefighter acting as a firefighter?
TCSS.
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Hayes on
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In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, we are covered under the fire departments workmans comp from the time our pagers go off until we arrive back home. The "Official Notification" is when our pagers alert.
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Thanks for the reading assignment Chief, I fell asleep a few times. Could you sum this up for those of us with narcolepsy?
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I found this to be interesting: § 209-i. Emergency service by volunteer firemen.
1. Whenever a
volunteer fireman is within this state, but outside the area regularly
served by the fire company or fire department of which he is a member
and has knowledge of a fire or other emergency at or near the place
where he is for the time being, such volunteer fireman may report to the
officer in command of the paid or volunteer fire company or paid or
volunteer fire department, or in command of one of the paid or volunteer
fire companies or one of the paid or volunteer fire departments, engaged
in the handling of any such fire or other emergency and, on an
individual basis, offer his services to assist such fire company or fire
department. After his services are so accepted, the volunteer fireman
shall then be entitled to all powers, rights, privileges and immunities
granted by law to volunteer firemen during the time such services are
rendered, in the same manner and to the same extent as if he were a
volunteer member of the fire company or fire department which he is
assisting, including benefits under the volunteer firemen's benefit law.
Any such commanding officer shall have power, in his discretion, to so
accept the services of a volunteer fireman unless the legislative body
of the city or the village, the board of fire commissioners or other
governing board of the fire district, or the town board of the town in
relation to (a) the fire companies serving territory outside villages
and fire districts or (b) a town fire department, as the case may be, by
resolution heretofore or hereafter adopted, has forbidden the acceptance
of any such services pursuant to this section. Any such resolution shall
continue in effect until amended or repealed by the adoption of a
subsequent resolution. The officer in charge of any fire company or fire
department shall be notified promptly of the adoption of any such
resolution and of any amendment or repeal thereof.
1-a. A volunteer firefighter who, because of his residence or usual
occupation, is regularly in the area served by a volunteer fire company
or department of which he is not a member may nevertheless volunteer his
services on an on-going basis to the officer in command thereof to
assist such fire company or fire department for the purpose of assisting
such company or department's general or emergency ambulance services, or
for the purpose of assisting such fire company or fire department at a
fire or other emergency scene or for the purpose of training with such
fire company or fire department. After his services are so accepted, the
volunteer firefighter shall then be entitled to all powers, rights,
privileges and immunities granted by law to volunteer firefighters
during the time such services are rendered, in the same manner and to
the same extent as if he were a volunteer member of the fire company or
fire department which he is assisting, including benefits under the
volunteer firefighters' benefit law. Any such commanding officer when
authorized by the legislative body of the city or the village, the board
of fire commissioners or other governing board of the fire district, or
the town board of the town in relation to (a) the fire companies serving
territory outside villages and fire districts or (b) a town fire
department, as the case may be, shall have power, in his discretion, to
so accept the services of a volunteer firefighter.
2. The municipal corporation or fire district which would be liable
for the negligence of any volunteer members of the fire company or fire
department which has accepted the services of the volunteer fireman
pursuant to this section shall be liable for the negligence of such
volunteer fireman while acting, after such acceptance and during the
time such services were rendered, in the discharge of his duties as a
volunteer fireman in the same manner and to the same extent as if he
were a volunteer member of the fire company or fire department which he
assisted. If the fire company or fire department which has so accepted
the services of a volunteer fireman pursuant to this section is a paid
fire company or paid fire department, such paid fire company or paid
fire department shall, for the purposes of this subdivision and section
two hundred five-b of this chapter, be deemed to be a "duly organized
volunteer fire company" within the meaning of such section two hundred
five-b.
3. As used in this section, the term "volunteer fireman" means a
"volunteer fireman" as such term is defined in section three of the
volunteer firemen's benefit law; the term "area regularly served" means
the home area of the volunteer fireman as described in subdivisions one,
two, three, four or five of section thirty of the volunteer firemen's
benefit law and, in addition, any other area served pursuant to a
contract for fire protection and the terms "fire company" and "fire
department" shall include emergency rescue and first aid squads or other
squads or units of a fire company or fire department
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