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SCBA on the Roof?
Below are a series of photos courtesy "FirehouseGuy" from theWatchDesk.com from a daytime house fire last week in Maryland.
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Julie on
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Something I forgot to add - does this guy have any clue what is inside that is burning? You never know what people may have in there home.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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To steal a line from Chief Billy G: "YA DON'T HAVE TO BREATHE THAT SHIT!!"
There can be a lot of excuses for not having SCBA on like:
"I didn't have time to put a pack on"
"A pack just slows me down"
"I don't want to land on my pack if I fall off"
"The pack adds weight and I might fall through with it"
"I smoke anyways, what's just a little more smoke? I can take it"
"SCBA is for wussies" (translation: I'm claustrophobic and I hate wearing them)
They are equally weak, and equally asinine.
Everyone has to be safety conscious at a scene and if you see something that looks stupid, point it out to the IC because it probably is. You may save a life, either short-term or long.
I would be pretty leery of going up on that roof given the obvious involvement of the attic space, even with a roof ladder.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Cannon:
I saw your reply. I am glad that the incident was reviewed and a course of action taken on the offenders.
But, I couldn't help but notice that you seemed rather ticked at people responding with their comments. You referred to it as "armchair quarterbacking" and "bashing". I'll admit that a lot of adjectives were used, but why not? And how can you express an opinion on an event that has already taken place and it NOT be "armchair quarterbacking"? Is NIOSH armchair quarterbacking when they issue their reports? Are juries armchair quarterbacking when they pass their verdict?
Anyway; did you catch the guy that took, then released the photos to the internet? Because he created quite a stir and reminds us all that: you never know who is watching and who is recording it.
And that is just another good reason to do things right.
It would be pretty tough to whine about firefighter safety with videos like that circulating about the internet.
I'll stop flapping my gums.
I can't speak for the others, though.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Mario on
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Compromised roof, ladder placement, no SCBA. Wow. Can you say "Remedial Training Canidate"! Basics, basics, basics, or fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals!
I hope everyone learns from this, what not to do and the fact that almost everyone who read this thread cares about his fellow FFs.
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Permalink Reply by Patrick Moran on
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Even while conducting salvage and overhaul, we wear scba.The plastics and synthetic materials that almost everything is made of nowadays even while smoldering is extremely bad for the respitory system. When in doubt, put it on.
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Permalink Reply by Dale on
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whats worse then him up there is the 6 other guys watching him and not getting him down
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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It is what I was thinking....
Shouldn't be there in that situation in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by Phil on
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Thanks Rich, Yeah, there are so many other problems with this picture.... Did anyone see the smoke coming out of the house?... I myself will not worry about my pack, if there is no smoke. And its a policy to have our packs on and breathing air, but its not a policy to waste it outside?.. That guy on the roof, lets say he has a pack on, just not on air, he might have to go inside to help, where is his air....oh he is low already because he was wasting it outside. I dont see a problem with this, and you dont suspend someone for that. Do not use someone as an example.
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besides that he looks like a tool. up there all alone. He probably wanted to get his helmet dirty and smell like smoke. That guy is shouldnt be up there to begin with.
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Did anyone see the smoke coming out of the house?
Holy shit batman! I didn't see the smoke- and what about that there dang fire? Where did that come from?
Sorry dude! Couldn't resist.....
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Dunno, Phil, that last photo shows the roof being enveloped in smoke. From the continued ladder placement, it's impossible to tell if the no-SCBA firefighter is still on the roof or not. If he is, he has bigger problems than if his SCBA is full or partially-expended.
If it's on the rig, it doesn't help him.
The issue isn't whether the roof firefighter is in an IDLH environment, it's whether or not that environment may rapidly become IDLH. From the photos above, it's pretty obvious that the latter applies.
Using SCBA in an area that may rapidly become IDLH isn't "wasting" it.
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Bob Lloyd on
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In my opinion we are all missing some bigger issues here. One he/she appears to be operating on the roof all alone. "Fire fighters should be in Voice, Visual or Direct contact when in an IDLH." I would consider the smoke on that roof an IDLH. Second he is working on a truss light weight roof, burn through in Huh.... lets say less than 5 minutes. And I completely agree it does not matter whether this department is career or volunteer they will all die exactly the same way and then we will be attending the funeral of one more fire fighter. Already been to way to many of those! Let's not brag about killing another 100 fire fighters a year for the sake of a lost building.
Insanity is doing the same thing over, and over expecting a different result!
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