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SCBA on the Roof?
Below are a series of photos courtesy "FirehouseGuy" from theWatchDesk.com from a daytime house fire last week in Maryland.
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
These photos are circulating around the Web on sites such as Firefighter Close Calls on the aspect of firefighter safety ... with the site noting "No one hurt but good pictures from the scene drawing "THINK" attention to PPE, SCBA and roof operations. While we love roof operations when needed, we are don't love un-needed exposure to the smoke -- today's smoke is some nasty crap.....we need to THINK. 1000 active Firefighters die each year to cancer."
What are your thoughts and your department's SOPs for firefighters operating on the roof of structure firefighters?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cedric on
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I see some people here comenting on how some vol. dept's have issues with personnel and initial response. It is no different anywhere in the USA, if you dont have the necessary resources then you should not be on the roof, working the interior and setting up water supply all at the same time and with two personel on scene. Paid or Volunteer an AC or BC who is not commanding the scene of a fire is flat out negligent. And you can take that to the bank, I bet money that OSHA and NIOSH would have a field day with this fire and the Chief officer on scene if it had resulted in an injury.
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Permalink Reply by Ernie Robles on
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This is just straight up "Bullshit", I agree someone needs some days off for this!! I understand as Willie puts it that "sometimes you do whatever it takes", but i believe that comes into play if your saving someone's life!! I don't see this "pendejo" on the roof effecting any rescue from this vantage point! This is negligence plain and simple! And families wonder why benefits get denied, WE NEED TO WORK SMARTER!!!
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Permalink Reply by Cody W. Nelson on
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There is a cultural change that is needed throughout the fire service. This is just one good point. SCBA is the most important piece of PPE that we have. I knew a Lt. that passed a couple of years ago from brain cancer. To listen to him before he passed was eye-opening. He said things like "Should have always put that airpack on", "I thought I was tougher than the smoke". Truth is none of us are super heroes. All of us can die. Why do we insist on putting ourselves in situations that can have devastating results. Looking at these photos, what exactly are they saving? Remember, Risk alot to save alot; Risk a little to save a little; Risk nothing to save nothing. Think it through and be safe!
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"Yeah but it makes good footage" just like in "Backdraft" and "Ladder 49" sic.
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As "engineco913" put it "The whole operation is unsafe!". NUFF SAID!!!
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Permalink Reply by Zach Johnson on
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15 years ago this was no big deal. Now our department reqiures your full PPE including SCBA on when there are roof operations being carried out. There is one other requirement that we have that I don't see and that is a roof ladder must be in place and properly used with hooks deployed and the firefighter must remain on that ladder until the job is complete and or called off.
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Permalink Reply by ASSTCHIEF173 on
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Fire Volume, Time on this incident, General conditions, Should anyone be on this roof at ALL. Our S.O.P.s say going to a house fire SCBA must be on to preform firefighting duties.
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Permalink Reply by Chuck Wright on
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i think if you are in smoke you should have scba on and be aloud on roofs if its safe those pictures are not safe.remember safty first
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Permalink Reply by Chris Rohwer on
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I agree to an extent, but I should have added that the next in mutual aid engine and tanker showed up at the same time as I did on the scene, so we did have more personnel go in within minutes of the intial attack crew. But as far as an AC or BC having to run the scene, I disagree. I have run several scenes and I am neither one, nor am I an officer at all.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Graner on
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Whitehat made some interesting comments above that I need to comment on because others are also now thinking about what he said: “There is more wrong in these photos besides the SCBA. Where is the roof ladder? Where is a second firefighter in case he falls? Where is the charged hoseline? They also have the wrong ladder for the job and that's why the angle is way off. These photos are a good example of what NOT to do during ventilation and ladder placement, I will use these in my Firefighter essentials class on Monday…...”
Chief, Please in your next essentials class do NOT use these pictures to answer the questions you posed above. Use the pictures to teach firefighter life safety lessons!!!Teach your firefighters that there is no value to be gained from any of the roof actions shown.
Your students will always remember the easy stuff. If you discuss proper ladder placement, backup firefighter placement, hose lines and ventilation practices your students will go home thinking about those issues rather than the important issue of firefighter life safety.
Teach the fact that in this incident NOBODY should have ever been assigned to stand on that roof for any reason at any time.
Just another word: We must NEVER make these discussions about virtues or Stupidity by type of department that caused the discussion be they Volunteer or Career departments. Every department type has done the stupid and the greatest. Each has same risks and obligations to safety of personnel. Every type of department has made the same stupid mistakes that we must examine in our need to educate each other to save firefighters lives in the future.
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Permalink Reply by Stephan Charest on
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Wow, I love these picutres, as learning tools, they make my job as instructor and supervisor a lot easier, because than i can use the '' 1 picture worth 1000 words'', ''I told you so'' and the ''Use your Common Sense'' saying...
I also agree with the FDs that have adopted SOGs on you don't use an SCBA in the Hot Zone you are on a free 1 or 2 weeks leave with no pay... Kind of a**** but when we can't understand with the head you understand with the wallet... Like Jeff said, there is so many wrong thing and things that can go wrong...
Stephan
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Jocelyn Chiasson on
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I totaly agree with you theres alot of thing that is wrong in these picture event the last picture .
i don't know if that guy is firefighter or not but i don't see any turnout gear this is sad we're in 2009 .
so brother and sister please use your gear they're your last protection!!!!!!
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