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RIT/RIC and hoselines
So RIT?RIC and HOSE LINES
SITREP
Recent reported structure fire in my first due, occupants report smoke and flames showing from hot water heater/ furnace, reports all occupants out of residence. Ariving engine reports nothing showing from exterior smell of smoke comming from open front door upon 360. has 2 ff pull 1 3/4 lead to front door. Second due engine to water supply and two ff to RIT.
Now every class I have gone thru tells me RIT/RIC in it self does not have a hose line. Thats what back up crews are for right?
Needless to say fire was out upon investigation from attack team with damage only to the furnace and duct work.
What are your thoughts on RIT/RIC and hose lines? What are your SOP/SOG in this reguard?
Sorry for crappy sentance structure and choppy paragraphs trying to do this from my phone.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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To preface, I will say that a real RIT operation in and of itself, will entail much more than a single team and IMO the 2 in 2 out is antiquated and should be tossed.
As for a RIT handline, we pull a line just for the RIT team and that line comes off a second engine. It is considered another tool in the RIT cache, while it doesn't necessarily have to be used by the RIT team, it is there because if a MAYDAY is called, the worst case scenario just happened.
There are just way too many unknowns that can occur, even to a back up team, which for us, is used in conjunction with an attack team. The back up team doesn't just stay outside, but may go in and stay back from the attack to help cover egress etc, yet things can still go wrong. It would be prudent to be ready and pulling another line for RIT is not a big deal, best to have it ready and not needed than need it and not have it.
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Permalink Reply by Charley Cashen on
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Both John and Kyle have very good points. One thing that I think is overlooked because we have been taught that the , team or crew, is a specialized unit. Rapid intervention begins with the first crews entering the structure on fire. Once we commit to interior attack and put people in harms way then whoever is on the scene at that moment is responsible for their brother/sisters welfare. If the first in pumper steps in the door and falls through the floor to the basement a mayday event is on you. As firefighters we figure out problems and solve them. The people on the scene at that moment are now tasked as the "RIT/RIC". AND the fire still needs to be put out. The whole idea is really still in it's infancy and everyone is scrambling for their own "way" to set up and operate RIT/RIC in their dept. Here in KCFD we actually set up and taught our crews how to deploy a 2 1/2 into a warehouse to solely cover a RIT while they would preform a rescue. Just practicing something we hope we never have to do again.
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Permalink Reply by captnjak on
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I agree with John that 2 in 2 out is really insufficient, but it is a minimum standard and I suppose we have to start somewhere. Also, a higher standard would literally cripple some departments. They couldn't possibly intervene early (unless a KNOWN life hazard) in an operation because they'd be waiting for resources. As they wait conditions deteriorate and safety factor decreases vs increases.
I disagree with Kyle that a RIT hoseline should never come off an operating piece of equipment. You have a positive water source and a Mayday is given, IMO you use the positive water source you already have. Any working fire will have a line on the fire and should have a backup line in place. It is likely that one of them will be able to protect the RIT operation.
I also disagree with the idea that they have to get their own water source and ground ladders. Time is of the essence once a Mayday is given. We should operate as efficiently as possible. Obviously, I don't endorse removing a ladder that someone is expecting to use for emergency egress. But there could be laddrs already available that were placed as a precaution. If so, use them.
I disagree with Charley that RIT is still in it's infancy. It's been around a long time.
The scenario Charley described kind of points out the difference between 2 in 2 out and RIT. Once RIT has been designated and is on scene, it should be taking the pressure off all of the other operating members. They can go back to concentrating on supression, search, ventilation, etc.
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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
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We hardly ever call a RIT team. We do training for rescuing a downed FF in our part of the county. We normally will have extra equipment on scene and will assign a crew from the manpower pool for are RIT. Kyle is correct when he states we were taught to bring are own equipment. Over the years this has changed a bit. I personally don't care where the equipment comes from but there is normally enough right on the scene for the RIT.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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The actual RIT crew should NOT be responsible for operating a handline. If it is believed the RIT will need a hoseline a seperate crew should be assigned to operated the hoseline. The RIT crew has one job and one job only, to locate and remove the downed firefighters. If they are expected to drag a hoseline it will slow them down and tire them out needlessly for what will already be a labor intensive operation.
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What if all of the manpower pool has been assigned to work? Now they are using energy, air and mental concentration on other tasks. They will not be as effective if suddenly assigned to RIT. How can they be "rapid" if they have to disengage from a task, meet up with eachother, formulate a plan, possibly replace cylinders, gather up appropriate tools,etc before intervening?
I believe we owe it to ourselves to have a RIT, with no other fireground responsibilities, ready to go immediately to work if called upon to do so. It should not take a back seat due to staffing limitations. This is the only RIT policy with a realistic chance of being successful.
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Kyle,
You could just as easily had a malfunction with another valve on another rig. I don't like to see policy based on an isolated incident. The vast majority of the time, a properly operating rig will continue to operate properly. And I still maintain that you'll get a line in place quicker by using a line that had been previously stretched as backup line. It's also possible that the initial attack line will be able to protect the rescue. It's also possible a line will not be needed at all for the rescue.
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It really is unrealistic to think that RIT will bw able to do their job in addition to stretching and operating a line.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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Building on what others have written our RIT crews are never involved in attack unless something out of the ordinary is going on where they are staged and someone needs a hand. RIT has to be focused. And our RIT would arrive third at the earliest after at least two first due initial attack companies are working.
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Kyle,
Why didn't the nozzleman flow the line before entering to make sure he had water and sufficient pressure?
Further, a good pump operator should have been able to change that line to a working discharge in about a minute. Explain the valve malfunction if you can please.
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In may 12 years I have never seen the man power pool empty. And I did not state they do anything else. We pull guys that we know have been trained and they are the RIT. They do nothing but gather what they need to be a RIT team. No hose line. We will assign a hose line crew for them if needed.
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