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Question regarding department policies for sick leave
The department that I work for requires employees to have the doctor put what is wrong with you on your doctors excuse. I was a small business owner prior to becoming a firefighter and I feel that I have a good understanding of how sick leave abuse is disruptive and costly to any business but this practice seems to be in direct violation of employee privacy standards. The department also requires that if you take Family sick leave that you put the condition of your child/wife or family member on your doctors excuse. As well as these policies, district chiefs are sent to residences daily to check on employees to make sure they are home as a house arrest policy requires employees to be at their homes unless going to doctor, church, pharmacy, or grocery store. I do not object to this policy but am curious to know what other departments have in place regarding sick leave policy. Please tell me what your department requires and also any policies your department has to curb sick leave abuse.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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All we are required to do is say we are sick and when we expect to return to work. If we are gone 3 days we need a doctors excuse.
If we call in family sick all we had to do was say which one of the kids was sick.
I think I would research whether the info they are requesting is a violation of HIPPA. Frankly, I don't think it is any of there business why I am sick, or why my kids are sick. We have a similar policy about staying home unless running errands related to the reason for taking sick time. The chiefs have made visits to people they believe are possible abusers of the sick leave.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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There can be issues with sick leave abuse, but then there are also issues in justifing sick leave too and reality is not every time one takes sick would require a doctor's excuse.
Reality is someone could easily have a bug and sick for the day, stay in bed and take some OTC meds and could be good to go the next day, this doesn't need a trip to the hospital or to the doctor's office. Same thing if staying home to take care of a sick kid etc.
The city I'm with implemented such a policy for a period of time several years ago, one needed a doctor's excuse to justify the sick time before coming back to work. If it was for a sick family member, they wanted you to bring the kid to the doctor or go to the ER. Well, when things like that start to occur, it starts to cost more money and guys were having the visits billed to the city, because it was the city requiring them to go to the doctor. Needless to say, this didn't last too long with more and more bills.
Now, sick leave is watched a bit more and warnings may be given if a pattern is noticed etc. If someone is sick for a more prolonged period of time they show a doctor's excuse. Also, it was made clear that the city can request a person to get a doctor's excuse too if abuse may be suspected.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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If we are off more than 2 shifts we need to go see a Doctor. However because of HIPPA laws the Department cannot ask what is wrong with you. The doctor just has to give a vague discription of your illness or injury. As a matter of fact the Department makes a point of telling us to make sure the Doctor doesn't give any detailes about your health.
As for coming to your house while your off. Well that is a bit creepy, at least we'd think so. Unless there stopping by with beer. Oh, yes and there are those privacey laws.
No offense, but does your department know that your in the US not North Korea? I am suprised they haven't been sued over these policies.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on
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I work with Len and to add to this our department tells us that if your doctor doesn't wish to put the reason on the excuse even after you tell him the city says it has to be on there, YOU are to put on the excuse the reason. They want to know EXACTLY what is wrong with you. It was stated that if HIPPA has the doctors hands tied then you yourself can write the reason down.
We had troubles with sick leave abuse in the past and it is because of this that your supervisor is supposed to make certain you are at your residence getting better and not out fishing; but yes sometimes you think the department is run by communists from North Korea.
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We had sick leave abuse going on here. This is why you must have seen a Doctor if your off more than 3 shifts. The department also looks for patterns in when you call off sick. For example, we work 24hrs on with 48hrs off, we have 3 shifts. A,B & C. We get a Kellie day, so let us say I work B shift and my Kelly day is Tuesday. Whenever B shift falls on a Tuesday, I don't work.
Now the department looks for people who call off sick the shift before or the shift after there kelly day. Once or twice won't raise a flag. Multiple times and they start asking questions. Another flag waiver is a FF who seems to always be sick the shift befor or after his vacation.
Does a Chief officer go to the persons house or is it a Capt.? Do they drive there own vehicle or Department?
How many FF do you have on your department? Does your department require you to live in the county,city or X amount of miles from your Fire district?
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Have you guys had the dept/city become the recipient of such bills then too? As I mentioned, such issues were done by our dept as well several years ago, requiring someone calling in sick to get a doctor's excuse to come back. So since it was the city requiring one to consult a doctor, even for a 24 hour virus type of thing, they had the bills submitted to the city. Well, when the city starts to see all these extra costs now mounting, it provides a "second look" at such a policy. Beiseds, what starts to cost more, the occasional abuse of sick time, or the needless doctor visits for something needing some downtimes and rest to get better, not an ER or Urgent Care visit and needless doctor's bill?
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Permalink Reply by hambone22 on
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With our last contract we did away with sick/personal/vacation time and lumped them all into one group called TTO (Total Time Off). This has solved any issues we had prior to the newest contract. The rank and file love it, the admin hates it. Gotta love the push and pull when it comes to writing new contracts. They have already said that may be the first thing to go in the next talks.
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It's a district chief that goes to the person's house and they take their unit. We have guys that live 50+miles out of the city limits and they have to drive all the way out there and back to check on them. It is ridiculous but that is the policy. We have an allotment for roughly 180-ish firefighters, if I had to guess I'd say we were somewhere in the 170 range, you do not have to live in the Parish(county for those of you outside Louisiana) or in the city. You just have to make it on time to your shift.
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Hambone could you elaborate on this TTO? Does it include such items as trade-time, comp-time, vacation, sick leave, family sick leave, etc. ? I'm curious how your system works
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We have 2 places we can go see a Doctor with no charge. The first is our
PERF Doctor. The second is a city employee clinic. Both are free and the
city already pays into these two medical programs.
Or you can just go to your own Doctor.
I am sure that the tax payers love all that gas and repaires they are paying for so a chief
can drive to a sick ff house. Let us not even think about if they wreck going to or from the ff
house.
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I am sure that the tax payers love all that gas and repaires they are paying for so a chief can drive to a sick ff house.
I bet they don't even know....maybe a little birdy needs to drop a hint to the local media for an investigative report.
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It does not include trade time. We don't currently have comp time. It does include sick time and family sick leave. Basically, it encompasses any time off, with the exception of trades. They upped our TTO to reflect previous levels of vacation, sick, and personal time. No doctor's note is ever necessary unless it's a job related injury/illness. It seems to work well for us. Not a whole lot of omplaints from the rank and file.
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