How many of you that are part of some kind of emergency service and have your
conceal carry? And then how do you deal with carrying? For example I am
a volunteer fireman and medical first responder. When I go on medical
calls I don't take my gun off. When I go on a fire call I have a holster
in my truck I put it in and lock up my truck or if leaving from home I
leave it there.
Most of the fire fighters I've known to run any calls with a firearm were police officers off duty, but still in uniform (the few calls that I've ran into this, they had just gotten off work when the tones dropped). But that's about the only reason any of our guys would have a weapon on a call. There's not really a written rule about this in our SOG's its just understood, no weapons with this one exception. I believe there is a bit of a duality to this, in some instances I would support this, like if LE support wasn't available, or you work in a Really bad area. But on the other hand, just any Johnny Go-Getter shouldn't be able to carry on scene for obvious reasons.
"Does being a Vol FF mean I no longer have the right of self-defense?"
Yes, if your FD says you can't carry weapons. My department is pretty clear, NO weapons. Of course, we're affluent suburbia and around here, people settle their grudges with a formal declaration to duel, with appointed seconds and an agreed upon time to meet.
"...if the A-hole had started shooting to "defend' his burning pile of tires and garbage ... we would have been completely defenseless if we didn't carry weapons with which to defend ourselves... "
But you AREN'T Law Enforcement, so why do you think it should fall on you to deal with someone who doesn't want you to put out his fire?
Let me see if I understand this: you're in a very rural area so LEO is slim at best, you have a situation where there's a fire but the homeowner threatens you with a firearm so you think that, in order to 'save lives and property' it's not only okay but your right to engage in a gun battle with this person? Maybe you should think about becoming a cop, since clearly you seem to think that doing their job is part of yours.
"In rural areas CCW can mean the difrence between life and deaths cops cannot be everywhere, you must be prepared to defend yourself ."
So you think that a rural area is MORE dangerous than an urban, inner city area? Are you living in the 1800's?
(I have a Concealed Weapon Permit for my State) I am also Pro-Gun Advocate. I do not carry the weapon while on duty. It is not allowed per SOG. They are not allowed inside the firestation either.
The reason for "conceal and carry" is to protect YOU and YOUR property. When you respond as a representative of an agency, (VFD) you are not afforded the same rights with CCW as a plain civilian. You are now part of a public safety agency. You are not a law enforcement officer.
So a guy starts shooting at the FD because you are now tresspassing on his property, are you going to defend yourself by returning fire? My god, your CCW mindset has no merit, you are tresspassing on his property. And in the big picture, the reason why CCW gets a bad rap.
As a retired LEO I see things diffrently ... you as a Citizen always maintain the inherent right of self defense no matter when or where.. if your life or the life of another person is being threatened illegally you have the right and the moral obligation to stop the assault. In this life you are either a Sheep, a Sheep dog or the wolf... make your choice and live with your decision as I live with mine
First off I am very pro gun and am a nationally certified pistol instructor. The one thing to remeber is that if you re carrying, someday somewhere someone is going to make you use it, be prepared for the consequences. I do not carry when at the FD There is no need for it, that is what LEO's are for, plus it opens you and your FD up to a whole lot of legal liability.
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people." from happy gilmore
I am a huge pro gun guy and I always carry while off duty. We are not allowed to carry on the job, and knowing some of the people here I wouldn't want them to carry on the job, that is what LEO's are for. If its a dangerous situation... back out and stage... If you have a gang problem area, put ballistic vests on your rigs... Arson investigators do carry in Portland and they do have LE powers. They also recieve police training for it. I don't know if all of Oregon is like that or not.
Just because you work for a FD agency does not mean you don't have the same rights to defend yourself or another. ANYONE has the right to defend themselves or another that is in danger, at ANY TIME. Your CCW does not grant you the right to shoot someone, just the right to carry, the person you shoot gives you that right when they threaten your life. Most fire departments just don't want the legal battles or headaches from some idiots who carry, or the political backlash, which makes sense to me.
FD has no right to use lethal force to extinguish a fire on private property. Pulling back and waiting for the LEO would though. Don't get the two blurred.
Before you retired as a LEO, you had entitlement to use lethal force. As a citizen you do not have the same rights as an LEO, and to quantitfy that entitlement as a citizen is very grey. Most CCW permit holders think they know but have no clue when they use lethal force and what they thought was right.
We just had a guy go to jail for 3 years in NH "Live Free or Die" state, for just pointing a gun at a person, (on his own property) and he had a permit for it. (Search; Ward Bird)
I noted you changed your screen name from Mike B. to Johnny B. Good so whats up???