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Practical Training
I know alot of departments conduct hands on training right at their stations and or academys or training towers if the department has the accessability but I was just wondering how many departments are still able to secure old houses, and business that have been sold to be torn town for a new structure or community to be built in their place for training?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DUST on
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Not very often...I think we have had 1 house and 1 small commercial building to play with in the last 3 years. We have always used them for rescue, ventilation, forcible entry etc. types of training. We have never burned one.
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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Whats the reason for not burning in them if you dont mind me asking?
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Mostly it's complying with NFPA 1403 Standard On Live Fire Training Evolutions
http://www.in.gov/dhs/files/nfpa1403.pdf
There is a good discussion here of the involvement/preparation for a live burn http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/display/2077870730/ar...
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Why we did not burn them is above my paygrade. These burns provide good training but require good instructors since they are more dangerous than burns at training facilities. Like Jack said 1403 covers the many requirements and it must be followed precisely. Check the links he posted.
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I understand following NFPA and having the instructors and everything I just didnt know if like you said it was something above your pay grade or if the town wouldnt allow it.
I know a few communities around here that have been offered houses for practical training but when it comes to burning the town turns it down its not the lack of following NFPA or safety.
Jack/dt thank you for the posted links much appreciated
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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One big reason is the EPA. They will come in and check the structure. You must remove alot of stuff in order to burn a structure. This doesn't mean you can't use the structure for other types of training. VES, RIT, Search,Hose advancements,Truck work etc.
We have many abaddoned structures we could use..Problem is the Arsonists get to them befor we have a chance to train in them.
Also you if you are in a rural area where there are subdivisions going in you may find a farm house or two. We've had surrounding depts that have had farmers donate there structres to them. After they'd sold there property to devolopers.
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Permalink Reply by Alex Sharp on
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My dept. usually does 2 a year. Burn that is. We make the owner pay for the EPA to check it and to make sure that there is no asbestosis in the house. Sometimes they use the opportunity to throw a fire control 3 class if they have the instructors.
I think that it is a little funny that the county's around me don't want to deal with it because it is too hard but when or if you have a policy and the owner pretty much does everything then it is no big deal.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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The few live burns in donated structures I've been fortunate enough to train with (3 or 4) have been beneficial, but the bottom line is they are not totally controllable. There are more safety problems involved than with burn houses built solely for training purposes. Another problem we now have in Texas is getting a permit from the state's air quality control agency. The local fire marshal abides by their rules as he should. We were offered one recently, but had to turn it down.
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Yea the EPA is a big issue with alot of burns in MA. Like you said they have to come in make sure your not near any bodies of water and the roof is the right material to go into the air when it burns and all that.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Amundsen on
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We have been lucky. Lately we have had 1 or 2 structures to train in and burn. Yes there is paper work involved. We have the land owner pay for asbestos check and removal. This is required to be done if the structure is torn down or burned. The home owner pays less when it is burned, and they also can use part of the value of the structure on their taxes as a donation.
There are safety issues as well, but we use this to help train the importance of accountability and firefighter safety. We generally have the structure for 3-4 months for training prior to the burn. An actual structure burn is the best type of training we can offer to our members.
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Permalink Reply by John Karl Ambrusch, III on
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Our community acquired a piece of land under our open space laws and fortunately, there is a house on the property that we've been fortunate enough to have for training. I wouldn't recommend burning in it, but perfect for search & rescue, RIT simulations, smoke simulation, etc. You can even practice apparatus arrival and fireground assessments.
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Permalink Reply by Tymothy on
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We have hosted a aquired structure burn each year for the past 4 yrs. Im not a big fan of the burn towers i just think there a campfire in a closet. There is a company called Fire llc. in northern wi that provides the instructors for these. Some of the best fires ive seen have been on training burns.
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