If you are a professional FF and are part of a union you may find an article titled  "A Tangled Web Indeed!" interesting.


 Anyone up for such a discussion?

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The intent of this stream is to connect with other like minded professional FF's not to rehash old arguments, I am not here to change your mind or your political views. Just a quick point my access to the AFL CIO is through the IAFF, and further more Harold sits on the executive board of the AFL CIO, or he is an executive VP or something I cant remember off the top of my head.
Finally, once again sir you spend a great deal of time talking about everything except the very pointed question I asked. The post I linked clearly demonstrates our union leadership working with the enemies of the USA and the western way of life. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT?
I completely agree in regard to constitutional rights, which is what gives this posts author the freedom to express his thoughts on how IAFF monies are spent.

This is not the first time this has come up and for my local, those folks who did not want their union dues spent on PAC fund were allowed to denote that their dues went other places. Everyone was and is still happy with this simple arrangement.

Maybe this post isn't a waste of time if folks learn that they don't have to go legal or website postal if they don't like something? But again, I have a tendency of oversimplifying things sometimes.

The constitutional argument is strong Ben. I would be interested to learn more about your concept of an open shop...
Closed shop - union membership required to work there, usually except for top management.

Union shop - non-union employees can be hired, but must join the union within a specified time frame.
Open shop - union membership optional. Sometimes confused with a Merit shop to keep union labor out of the workplace, but that's not an accurate characterization.

Merit shop - union organization prohibited, usually illegally.
Do closed union shops exist in the fire service today?
I'm unsure if any exist in name, but there are certainly some that exist in effect.

Union membership is essentially expected in a lot of the larger city FDs in the northeast and midwest, and there is a lot of peer pressure on new hires to joint even if the workplace is not explicitly a closed shop or a union shop. There are places in the Pacific NW where closed shops predominate as well.

Typically, if the local culture is union labor, the FD is probably unionized. In places where right-to-work is the culture, even if union locals exist, membership is completely optional.

A
Ya see, Ben, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Disagreeing, or even correcting someone who is flat out wrong has nothing to do with freedom of speech. No one is telling anyone they can't talk, act, or vote a certain way. If you think unblinking, unquestioning support of Israel furthers America's interests; than speak, act and vote accordingly.
Yes, In Spokane, Local 29, if you do not belong to the union you do not work here. Except for the top three chiefs, although some of them still pay their dues because they understand what the Local has done for them. Unless there is a religious reason, no one to date has proved that their religion prohibits union membership.
This is quite the discussion, the part that interests me is the writer assuming that because we are firefighters we agree with him on who is an enemy of the US. Two points, 1) I do not like my taxes going to pay for the bombing and murdering of women, childern, farmers, bricklayers, shopkeepers, nurses and everyone else we have murdered in Vietnam, Iraq, Lebanon, Laos, Cambodia, etc., in illegal wars that profit the rich, Wall street and big business. But I still pay my taxes because I believe in the Constitution. 2) I am a left leaning Democrat with strong socialist ideals. I do not think that any socialists are the enemy of the American working people, maybe our government but not the people. I do not believe that an Israel that continues to murder Palistinians is good for America or good for Israel. But I still pay my taxes and union dues because I believe in democracy (socialism and democracy are not exclusive to each other) and the Constitution of the US and the IAFF.
The writer hates his Local leadership, we get that. Then throw them out, if you tried that and lost then you must not have support for your position. Sorry, in a democracy the minority still has to pay their taxes and dues.
thank you for being far more elegant with your choice of words... it's as if you read my mind Greg... funny how we can be so much alike in thought. oh wait a minute, we are both professional firefighters that are part of a brotherhood, it's why we can trust one another without question...

just sayin'
CBz
and further more Harold sits on the executive board of the AFL CIO, or he is an executive VP or something I cant remember off the top of my head.
Finally, once again sir you spend a great deal of time talking about everything except the very pointed question I asked. The post I linked clearly demonstrates our union leadership working with the enemies of the USA and the western way of life. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT?


Do you want me to ask him personally for you? I'm at our state convention and Harold is here, do you want me to pick his brain for you then?
Wow....
Thank you for having the courage to at least admit you are a socialist. The writer does not assume anything about professional firefighters. You may find in your firehouse in Spokane that your views are widely accepted, (or not) That would not be surprising given your location. Like i said in other replies, I am not here to challenge, your beliefs that of course I find my self the polar opposite of. The intent is to connect with others who are like me to challenge those in our organization who feel as you do, and to stop the money flowing to such enterprises. You assume, incorrectly that I am not working within my own local, and assume incorrectly again that I "hate" my leadership. If this is not something you agree with, thank you for your time, stay low, stay safe.
PS The USA is not a democracy, its a representative republic. Cuba, Venezuela, and countries like that are democracies.

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