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Police or Firem who is in charge
In Delaware we have the Fire Chiefs law that basically states whomever is in the right hand seat is in charge of the scene no matter what type it is, Accident, Fire, Major Disaster.
I just read that a LT was arrestted in CT. Whats the rules in your state?
I just read that a LT was arrestted in CT. Whats the rules in your state?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Theres seems to be several lines of thought on this. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. If the fire department is dispatched they are in charge. No matter what the incident. They are allowed to call whatever resources they need from additional companies to the National Guard. Of course there are common sense limits. If we're called to a bomb threat or crime scene assist then the police stay in charge. At an accident the fire department is in charge. We've never had a firefighter or officer arrested at a scene or any type.
We've had problems with police officers parking in the way of fire engines. I had to yell at one or two in my time. Once they were parked in front of a hydrant and the other parked in the middle of the road blocking us from laying from a couple of blocks away.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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We are in complete control at Fires, Rescue and HAZMAT. Police have Incident Control at MVA Rescue, but we take the role of Rescue Co-ordinator, which means we are in charge of the rescue scene.
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Strtcopr wrote
"Let me pose a hypothetical. You get dispatched to a reported explosion and fire at a local bank. Upon arriving on location the fire chief is informed by police that the explosion and fire was caused by a subject who robbed the bank. Who is in charge of the entire incident?"
While its never happened in Delaware I believe the police would be in charge because the orginal call was for a bank robbery. If it came in as an explosion and it was found to be a bank robbery the police woulod be called and secure the scene. We really donb't have serious issues witht the police. We know our limits and they know thiers. They have reps come to our county meetings. years ago we had the county executive try to give the county police power over the fire companies. (he was the past chief of Police). The police didn;t want it.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Many states have an "Emergency Powers Act" or similar legislation that basically states that the Fire Chief (or the Chief's designee) is in charge of any "fire or other emergency" that involves an immediate threat to lives or property including fires, traffic accidents, hazardous materials releases, and otehr situations. There are usually specific exceptions to this that specify that if the threat involves terrorism or a violent offender, then law enforcement is in charge.
There are a lot of EMS providers not affiliated with fire or EMS that argue that EMS should be in charge of incidents where patients are involved. It can get complicated.
Common sense indicates that if a fire, rescue, or hazmat is the primary problem, then fire/rescue is in charge. If terrorism or violent criminals are involved, then the cops run it. I don't see many situations where EMS would be in Command - they are in charge of the patients but not the scene, as they typically leave the scene with the patient.
The bottom line is to know the laws for your state, meet with the other agencies that work multi-jurisdictional scenes in your area, and get these issues worked out in advance. Laws, not opinions or egos, should be the deciding factor.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Flexibility. Do what needs to be done.
There's a fire? Fire Brigade is in control until the fire risk has been removed, then control is handed over to the Police - all fires are considered a crime scene.
MVA? Police matter. Except that if there's a fire involved, then it's 'ours'. Entrapment? Then the rescue operators control until the patient is removed. Paramedics direct the rescue crew if they want the extrication to be done in a certain manner. When there's no fire and all patients have been removed, the Police control everything. Interestingly, I was told a couple of days ago by a Police Officer that when at the Academy (she wasn't long out) they are told to do whatever we ask them to do at an MVA. Hmmm. "Excuse me Constable, could you shoot this idiot for me please? He keeps getting in my way..." Maybe not.
Hazmat? It's a Fire Brigade matter.
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Yes unified command is usually the way. Also there is always the fact that in cases where the scene is deemed NOT SAFE ( such as a sniper, deranged person, etc) Police are USUALLY in charge until they give the Code 4 (all ok) signal.
Captain Busy...and don't forget that if a drop of creek water is involved you may have to call the USCG! LOL
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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In my county the fire dept. is in charge.
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Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
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Until the fire and explosion hazards have been mitigated the fire dept. is in charge no question.
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Permalink Reply by scfireman1403 on
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In SC, the IC of the scene is in command of other agencies as well as his own.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Lintz on
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In ohio the Fire Officer controls all scenes once they arrive
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Permalink Reply by Ethan Crichton on
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in MI the chief owns the scene, no matter what it is. That Lt. in CT was released and the state settled the lawsuit.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Craig,
Our laws are different than most...
In New Hampshire, the Fire Chief or his designee (senior fire official on scene) has total control of any Fire, Rescue or Hazmat incident. This is covered by state law and is an RSA. Now bomb threats, suspicious packages, hostage situations, etc. is the Police Department's responsibility.
Now RSA; 154.7 dictates that any emergency incidents / responses ON a highway or roadway, (motor vehicle accident for example) the Senior Fire Official and the Senior Law Enforcement Official (on scene) shall operate under the Unified Command System during the incident.
This was written to avoid the conflict on a roadway. This is what we usually see on Youtube with PD arresting the FD. What I have found, once the law was changed, was the fire department decided to actually talk to the PD before the next incident. I found we had completely different mindsets. The patrol officer usually focuses on traffic flow, avoiding back-up and keeping the traffic moving. The Fire Department, well everyone knows is opposite, all about safety. Now when I did a short 20 presentation, I had a mix of patrol and investigation officers in the room. So I used an example of a serious accident, asked a patrol officer to size-up the scene on his arrival, then asked him if this was taught at the police academy. Mostly about traffic backup, flow and detours. Then I asked an investigator to size-up the same scene when he arrived... his mindset was all about making sure the road was closed, safety of his team and securing the EVIDENCE. When I left, it was pretty clear that internally they had two completely different mindsets. The patrol officer traditionally works in the traffic, stops cars, writes tickets, directs traffic etc. (an instilled mindset)
The sad part was all along, what needed to happen was someone needed to communicate what we the FD needed, (a very short window) to successfully operate / extricate / package the victims while being assured our safety was on the forefront....
The many youtube videos of LEO's being struck and killed at post secondary scenes might have helped a little..
TCSS
FETC
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