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Picking a Chief: Experience or Education?
This was the situation my fire company was facing. We have two people running for Chief.
One is a 30+ member (only 44yo) has held every position except chief including Deputy for 4 years. has went through almost all the classes at the state fire school. Has ran everything from Field fires to 2 alarm building fires. Very respected by the members annd known to the surrounding areas as a competent officer.
The other is a 10 year member highest position held is 2nd Assistant. Is also a paid firefighter. Has taken many courses in and out of state. As not alot of experience running a scene. Is well known in the county as well as state. But is known to have been in the building and not responded to fire alarms (was President the last 2 years) and stated he didn't he didn't have to respond from home in the middle of the night.
With this information who would you pick as Chief, Expeience or Education?
With all this information
One is a 30+ member (only 44yo) has held every position except chief including Deputy for 4 years. has went through almost all the classes at the state fire school. Has ran everything from Field fires to 2 alarm building fires. Very respected by the members annd known to the surrounding areas as a competent officer.
The other is a 10 year member highest position held is 2nd Assistant. Is also a paid firefighter. Has taken many courses in and out of state. As not alot of experience running a scene. Is well known in the county as well as state. But is known to have been in the building and not responded to fire alarms (was President the last 2 years) and stated he didn't he didn't have to respond from home in the middle of the night.
With this information who would you pick as Chief, Expeience or Education?
With all this information
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Both....I think education without experience is of little value....They are going to have the task of sending firfighters into some of the harshest, most unforgiving places on earth and to do so without having been there is;in my opinion, a mistake. Look at the character of the person....many times you can tell and say to yourself...."I would follow this man through hell if he asked me to" That's the person for the job......Just my take on it....Stay safe always remember to keep the faith..........Paul
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Lets be honest..... we are popularity voting so who is the biggest suck*ss?
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Chief you were a little more PC than me.... LOL
I for one feel all "officers positions" should be filled by a competitive process, with minimum quals for the position, application process, assessment center and peer review board interview. Appointed by the the town and not voted at all.
But that would end the silly season...
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Permalink Reply by Scott Hazeltine on
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We've dealt with almost the exact same situation here. My personal belief, from what you have entered, there is no question in my mind that the 30+ year member should be your next leader. Trust and Respect is two of the most important words in the fire service, and sounds like he has both those traits. Department moral depends alot on this issue, and furthermore, he sounds like a guy I would trust my life with, not the call picker.
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Permalink Reply by P D Knight on
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Based upon the provided information I would lean toward the Deputy Chief, but I still have some questions that go through my mind.
1) Does he have the respect of his people?
2) Does he lead by example?
3) Does this Commander have the willingness to do any job, even the grunt work when it counts?
4) Will he assign a task to another without the willingness to do it himself?
5) Is he the kind of guy that says "I will never ask you to do anything that I will not, or have not done myself"?
It is not enough to have the respect of the community. The selection process should not be a popularity contest, but a decision based upon qualifications, leadership capability, respect and knowledge. Education doesn't just happen in a classroom. There is much value in "street education" or what I refer to as graduation from the "School of Hard Knocks". A guy that does the job, and has the certifications is well balanced.
RED FLAG: A commander who feels he is too good to get out of bed to go to the "dance" doesn't have the best interest of his command at heart. And just because a guy is "Paid" doesn't qualify him automatically for anything. I have seen some pretty poor PAID firefighters. Sound like the "I'm too good" mentality.
Given my position, I may not have to go, I may not be needed, I may not even be able to do a better job of commanding the scene, but I will still go to anything that requires two or more Engine Companies. I can decide to take command or stand by to watch when I arrive. But a good chief will be present to be the rock. The presence of a good chief should instill confidence in his people as they perform their tasks. It has nothing to do with how much faith the Chief has in his troops, it has to do with how much faith the troops have in their leader. I can let my Officers handle stuff all day to help them gain skill and confidence. But I should be available to give them some sense of backup, a safety net, if things should go wrong.
Again and again I see younger guys that get all the "wallpaper" who have little experience "on the ground", assume the position of Chief or Training Officer. Some do a pretty good job, but I have seen many more fail to gain the respect of their people. They are viewed as resume builders or ladder climbers. There is a need for those guys I suppose, since they seem to be in demand. Sometimes the certification on the wall just means he can pay attention and score well on examinations. There is something to be said for "paying your dues".
But if I was being lead by a commander, I would want to have a guy that has my safety on his mind. I want a guy that will use every available option to solve a problem. I want a guy that has been there and done that. And I want a guy that cares about his people and the community. As far as I know, they don't give out Certificates for those qualities and they can only be judged by those he leads.
I think you already know the answer.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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The 30+ year member!
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Well the vote is in. Our Board of Directors vote for Chief and Deputy....7 members and only 2 are active fire fighters. They went for education over experience. And picked a guy for Deputy that while he held an Assitant Chief position was not really actgive (no meetings, fire schools etc) and never ran a fire scene of any kind.
I haven't been to the fire house in over a year because of politics. With this leadership I'll think it might be another year. Maybe the nieghboring company could use someone with 30 years experience (as a driver only)
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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Experience
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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That sounds like our vote. Everyone wanted our Cheif out so I ran against him. The sad part is he and I are good friends. Myself and the other Capt. talked the rest of the board into letting 2 of our now ex probies vote in the election since there was no definate start date for thier employment. They even said they were tired of being the laughing stock of the county and that I had their vote. When the time came, I had 2 votes and the Chief had 5. I lost my Capt. position because I didn't run for it. Not really bitter about it, but I did stand up for these probies on several occasions and this is how I was thanked. I was lied to by two of the best probies I have ever seen.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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Those who don't DO but choose who do will always pick education over experience. That's life in almost every vocation there is. Hopefully, those with the experience are the ones actually running fireground operations. Let the eggheads manage the paperwork.
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Permalink Reply by John Manly on
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You have to ask yourself., Who would YOU be more willing to hear giving orders on the fire scene.? Which one has the mind set to get the job done as safely as can be done.. Education is not everything. And ask yourself which one is only going to show up for the big calls. The middle of the night. ..John
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