The Fire Dept. as a whole, all over the world, is a brotherhood. But are Explorers considered part of this so called "brotherhood??" i was talking with a firefighter and my Explorer Engineer (2 positions under me, also 2nd in command @ our post) and we kinda got into a heavy..."debate" on whether or not Explorers are considered part of the "brotherhood."
I believe they are.

What do you think??

Explorer Capt Marc Hurwitz
Los Angeles CITY Fire Dept.
post 68

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The brotherhood is something that must be understood and lived by for one to really be a part of my opinion. I have, even in my short time, have noticed there are Firefighters (career/volunteer/part time/whatever) that truly understand what the brotherhood is about, our fellow firefighters....I know many that will bend over backwards for each other no matter what it is they need. Whether it's help building a deck, lending a hand to move, supporting each other be it on the fire ground or off. These people reach out and make you feel like a part of the "family" no questions asked and all they expect is you to be there for them the way the are for you. To have eachother's backs....but then again I know some who are in it for "me". The ones that don't show up when you need the help, but expect everyone to be there for them if they were to need it. The ones that act like they are better than everyone else even if they don't bother showing up for the "boring" calls or trainings...those are the ones I feel don't understand the brotherhood, and in my opinion aren't really a part of the brotherhood.
Why do I get the feeling that the importance of being in the "brotherhood" is inversely proportional to the number of months one has in the "fire service?"
FYI John: There are some depts where I am where you join and you need to choose either a EMS or Firefighting path or both and some of the long standing members are only EMT's but they are still firefighter brothers, NOT considered less. So don't say thier not members until they are certified firefighters. It's just not always the case

Did you even read what I wrote? I mentioned absolutely nothing about non firefighters, but addressed the issue about EXPLORERS. As for this stuff, believe what you want and feel however you want, I won't tell you to feel different, because it is your opinion. IMO, I don't agree with this statement, firefighting and EMS are different, even though we often do both. Both have their own stressors and their own challeneges, but sorry, I don't buy into the same logic of considering EMS as firefighter "brothers", nor considered less. In actuality, you are putting words into my mouth I never stated by alluding to this.

IMO, I view things differently, I know several people who only do EMS and do have a distinct and different respect for them, and those who do both, and to those who do just FF. I don't consider someone doing only EMS as a firefighter, because unless they are doing firefighting, then they are NOT a firefighter, are they? It doesn't mean I don't respect someone for their dedication and I would appreciate it if you would stop putting words into people's mouths.

Wasn't this topic about Explorers anyway, who was anyone to judge about who can be a brother or not. Explorers are not at all the same as probies. A probie can have already met the requirments but are just waiting for there year or whatever to be up

Again, never said anything other than about Explorers, and only stated I do not consider explorers, juniors, cadets, etc to be part of a "brotherhood" until they are certified FF's.
Excuse but who were you to even question another persons feelings about the brotherhood, like I said this forum was about explorers being considered brothers or not, some members tunred this into something different. If anyone here feels they are not a brother of another thats thier own opinion. I think if you want to question who is or who is not a brother then I don't think any of us who fought about this should be lecturing, you don't have to be "in" for a long time to understand something, something as deep as this. Hey its plain fact that if you talk to a majority of the FF world that you'll here them consider other firefighters brothers. Brother seems to be a word that has a VERY different meaning to everyone and lets leave that where it is and stop harrasing another FF or telling others they are in a fantasy world. Jack when you stop telling me to stop lecturing you should keep your own very strong opinions from being about individuals.
Indeed! Students are who are striving to be active members.
Hey jack it has nothing to do with time, it has to do with the bond you have with another and yes that can happen in a very short time. Who are you to keep talking about people you don't know about, agian wasn't this post about explorers in general? Lets keep it that way. Stop judging.
I don't believe that there is any measurable amount of time that says "you're in" or can be in for years and still not understand what the brotherhood is about....
Prove yourself to the them that you aren't going to lock up when the crap starts hitting the fan....even if it's just cleaning the toilets! Always be there for your fellow brother....I believe once you've been able to prove that you truly will be welcomed into the brotherhood. Good Luck!

Again, don't presume to lecture me, child. You aren't even a firefighter so from whence do you speak? Simply because you think you know what it's about? Not hardly.

As for what this discussion is/was about, it evolves as will any conversation. Yet you seem all to willing to jump in and discourse on what YOU just happen to think the brotherhood is about. Hell I've had kneepads with more experience than you (and I've gone through a few pair). Maybe I'll ask them what they think brotherhood is all about.

Clearly you don't GET it. I've at least put in enough time in the jump seat to be able to do my job, which is a lot more than can be said about you. And yet here you are, lecturing me and others about something you only think (fervently wish, hope for) to be true.

I can tell you that with your arrogant, know-it-all attitude you're going to be hard pressed to ever really discover what the 'brotherhood' is all about. Mainly because you'll be too busy lecturing everyone on what you think it's supposed to be. And moreover with your poorly placed sense of self-esteem and feelings of equality superiority you wouldn't last more than one run on my engine.
Well I think the same as LArry but just like you all say this is a public forums the only lecutre I gave is when the comment came about someone saying that all firefighters are not connected by the job they do (brothers). Jack I respect you for your training, experience and seniority, as I should but I jsut don't appericate you saying I don't know about the connection, bad stuff has happened in the area I am, its affected all of us as it would anywhere and all I am saying is I know what the bortherhood can do and what it does do. I apologize for some of my more strong comments. But regarding your cmment about not lasting a run with you, I have never acted like this before, I let them show me how to act, and perform and I have never been outspoken or questioned anyone who has been thier longer.

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