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PAR... Anybody includes casualties in their PAR
Good day All...
Few weeks ago, I heard that some dept, are reporting the casualties in their (PAR) Personnel Accountability Report.
I am wondering why and how? Anybody out there operate this way... I would like to hear more about it...
Steph
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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What do you mean by "casualties"?
No, we do not report "casualties", nor injuries, etc. We report with what we have. A PAR should be a quick, concise report, not a dragged out description. "E-2 has a PAR of 4"...."Ladder 2 has PAR of 3" etc.
If a pump crew is working inside and the engineer is at the pump panel, that is reported. For example.... "E-5 has par of 3 with 1 at the pump panel". The IC can look over to see the pump operator at the panel, or call the operator individually. When a company is rotated into rehab, such changes are reflected if PAR is called, such as "E-5, in rehab, has par of 4".
If there are injuries etc, the "casualty" isn't reported in a PAR. The injury is reported to the IC and the changes in accountabilty should be made accordinly.
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Permalink Reply by lang on
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For casualties we use a "d.i.m." count. Which stands for dead, injuried, missing. For example "comand from interieror we have a dim of 0,4,0. Clear as mud?
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Permalink Reply by Stephan Charest on
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Thanks guys,
- John that is how we work at my Dept.
- Lang is clear as mud, pretty simple for those that knows the system, and mean nothing if you don't...
I like it. I might even use it...
Thanks guys
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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If a firefighter is a casualty, that firefighter's company or team does not have a PAR unless the firefighter can self-rescue to the exterior along with all other members of that company or team.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Um, if there's a casualty you usually say something before the PAR check.
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I Ben sorry for the lack of detail... The dept. i am talking about includes any Civilian Casualties to their PAR.
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PARs are for firefighters and other emergency services personnel.
They should not include civilians.
A "PAR", by definition, is a Personnel Accountability Report. The "Personnel" refers to OUR personnel, not civilians.
Adding civilians to a PAR is unnecessary at best and downright dangerous at worst.
If you don't know how many civilians are in a fire building, how do you know if you have a PAR for them or not?
If you enter with a 4-firefighter company, if you add a civilian victim but have one of the firefighters seperated from the company, the company would report a PAR of 4, when that company actually has a missing firefighter. That could easily contribute to a firefighter LODD, since everyone will intepret the PAR as four firefighters, not three firefighters, a civilian victim, and minus a missing firefighter who is now off the radar screen.
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The dept. i am talking about includes any Civilian Casualties to their PAR.
I agree with Ben as well, PAR is strictly about firefighters, not civilians.
When you asked about casualties, we recently had a large scale fire where 2 FF's were transported to the ER from the scene. The injuries were reported to the IC and changes were made accordinly on the accountability board. The injured member was removed from the board and the PAR would be reflected as such until the relief arrived.
So for instance if E-3 has a crew of 4 and one is injured, the crew may be reassigned and when the next PAR comes about, they report PAR of 3. When a replacement gets to the scene, they report to the IC and then to the crew. Following PAR would be crew of 4.
Such issues happened a couple times on this fire.....it was all defensive, so it was a bit easier switching personnel, but the fire came in about 330pm, and at one point all rigs in the city were at the scene. There was OT personnel and some trade personnel where reliefs were done on the scene. Then there were the 2 injuries I mentioned and another FF, who had to leave because his wife was going into labor.
As confusing at many things occurred, the PAR itself was straight forward and simple.
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We always report the number in the company when we report our PARs, which helps with "crew modification" situations.
For example, when a PAR is called, you'll hear "Truck 6 has a PAR with 4" or Engine 2 has a PAR with 3".
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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We do PAR's the same way Ben and John does. I think most of the fire service who are progressive are communicating the PAR the same. The PAR is for tracking "emergency responders" in the IDLH atmosphere.
What you are looking to understand Stephan is what we call a Situational Report, for which the incident commander will advise fire alarm of fire conditions, number of patients or casualities, or even report on the results of our fireground PAR.
As far as a DIM report, nobody has time for that, besides as the interior sector, you may not have a # of missing.... And if you are providing a good primary and secondary search, the results of which, should be communicated in the Situational Report.
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I agree - the DIM report is unnecessary, time wasting, and potentially confusing.
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Thanks guys,
Good day FETC, In my FD we do the same thing than you guys, except we extend our PAR (IAW SOGs) to all personnel in the hot zone not only IDLH. I understand how it works, I just wanted more info before to talk to the organisation that include the casualties into the PAR.
The organisation that we are talking about are specialize in HazMat, they specialy train for mass casualties scenarios and don't have nothing to do with a fire Dept.
Now a question for me, just wondering what you are using for TAG, 1 or 3? If anybody are using electronic devices?
Thanks
Thanks
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