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Online Hazmat WMD Training: Engine Pump Discharge Water Temperature
This is the first in a series of training that I am putting together for FFN members to look at the individual components involved with hazmat WMD response. I have no idea if this is something that will be of interest but will take a wait and see approach before exploring some other topics.
This discussion focuses on providing emergency water supplies for a hazmat WMD event. There are several options out there for controlling the water temperature for an event. This is certainly "out of the box" thinking. If you can't make the water hot from your engines pump, then where can you find hot water
in an emergency?
Engine Pump Discharge Temperature:
* I've done this in the past, but it was not necessarily done on purpose... and I know that I am not the only one who lost the pumps prime... right? But can this be done in a controlled manner? Anyone thought about this?
This is an important factor when dealing with providing personnel decontamination in cold weather. Hypothermia is a definite risk factor that can be prevented. Spraying ice cold water on people could do a lot of harm, especially when dealing with the elderly, very young or medically compromised.
To not plan ahead and thinking about how you can make water warm is not something to shine on. Just think in terms of your family having to go through an emergency decontamination outside of a shopping mall, including soap and water that makes use of ice cold water. No one should be tortured because your department did not take the time to preplan this need. So how have you prepared for this?
TCSS,
CBz
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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CBz, short of adding a ON DEMAND water heater to an engine I havnt thought of this at least in providing hot water for decontamination. Our regional Haz-Mat team has this covered with their equipment de-con equipment.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Well cavitating a pump is not ideal, thus damaging the pump in my opinion is not pre-planning an incident. Besides cavitating a pump heats only the pump's water and not the booster tank's water therefore you simply can't keep up with the demand on the working end.
"If you can't make the water hot from your engines pump, then where can you find hot water in an emergency?" Well using your words CBz, using hot water for decontamination will open the contaminated victims pores and thus contaminate the patient more.
Tepid water, given the ambient outside temperature is what you are looking for and we do not use the engine for gross decontamination, we have a mass casualty decontamination trailer, that has heating controls for water temperature. The pump may or may not supply the trailer if a hydrant is nearby.
Another thought for most who plan on using your intended gross decon system, what are they gonna dry off with and wear after exposing them to the world. Much bigger issue than stretch a line and hose 'em down. This trailer has seperate male and female entrances, an inflatable tent and HVAC for more room for privacy, drying off and changing into new garments.
And we are rural NH
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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I guess the reality check here is that most of the USA does not have equipment WMD grant toys which is why we need to discuss other options for those who have to think outside of the box. If and when we get hit with terrorism, it has a high probability to occur in rural america, not inside the boundaries of large cities or counties where there has been substantial funding for emergency WMD events.
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Actually, to be very clear here, you want to make HOT water FETC. This is because you loose a lot of heat from both the aeration process through the nozzles in the decon shelter shower heads.
"will open the contaminated victims pores and thus contaminate the patient more"
No argument here but... the water has to be hot enough to begin with to enable the proper temperature to be delivered at the spray nozzle / shower head...
Fixed systems at hospitals, in concert with the physical plant operators and the distance from the hot water discharge to the decontamination site requires temperature adjustment from the source to enable the discharge of what you described as "tepid" water or between 85-100˚F.
The generic book answer of only using tepid water is hot always the best by the way. When dealing with oily materials, you may have to use warmer water to enable dissolving the materials in conjunction with the use of surfactants.
DOW chemical for example is exploring the use of corn oil for certain types of decontamation. Once the corn oil has been used to absorb the material(s), water that is warmer than 85˚F is applied to dissolve and rinse away both the corn oil and the contaminated materials chelated by the corn oil...
I appreciate your comments on protecting patient privacy, getting dried off, etc. I wrote an earlier post called Trash Bag Decon here on the FFN describing how to take a large black trash can bag, turning it upside down, folding it in half, cutting out a small fist sized 1/2 circle to enable a hold in the middle when opening the bag up. The bag can then be placed over an adult, with only there head sticking out, enabling them to self decon by first removing their contaminated clothing. It's not the best option out there but it's cheap and easy to both accomplish and prepare for. All you need is a box of trash bags, a pair of scissors and a roll of duct tape to strengthen the bottom of the bag seals that become the 'shoulders' when you invert the bag and place it on the person.
For California, only the large cities have mobile decontamination trailers. I plan on discussing overhead master stream appliances and other option for providing emergency decon in a future post.
Thanks for your input FETC.
CBz
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Capt, but we are all waiting for that important information right now to be able to make informed discisions on the calls we are on right now. Your going to give it to us in the future? Jeeze Bro! What to do now?
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Not to steal anyone's thunder here, cause' I was hoping for others to input stuff... but to just mention a few options... and these are random off the top of my head, you know there's a lot more out there...
• car washes
• high school gyms
• YMCA's
• colleges
• fast food restaurants (many have an industrial hot water supply access for cleaning stuff)
• hospitals
others? I think you can see where I am going with this. The key point for this post is to get folks thinking outside of the box. If an event were to occur, it's going to be a lot easier to deal with if your have already created a mental image and plan...
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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I like these posts and they are starting to show up more now. I have one question and it has probably been answered to me before but I don't remember. What do you do if someone is contaminated by some type of material that reacts badly with water but is also causing damage in it's current state?
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Tepid at point of delivery for clarification. And yes we have all this equipment and would use Research to clarify the best temperature at the delivery heads, (which is controlled for us)
But old school hose them down and cavitation is uncontrolled, I have seen poor "lever puller" steam a nozzleman when the nozzle was opened from backsplash, that would be very hot on the delivery end.
My town has 24,000 pop. We have a full level A hazmat capable team with all the mobile decon stuff, trailers, blow up tents, propane HVAC, etc. The State of NH obtained 10 or 11 decon trailers for just New Hampshire alone. We are also a reception center and decon center for a nearby nuke plant.
I can't believe with all that money out in Cali you only have them in large cities...
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Just curious, have you ever had to deal with a private establishment and tell them you are basically going to knowningly contaminate their establishment for your incident?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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We have the TVI tent system (similar to the one in CBz'a photo above) with a flash heater so we can make toasty warm decon water with any hydrant, engine, or other potable water as the source. We also have sump pumps in the catch basins and closed bladders to contain the runoff.
In warm weather, our ocean water runs around 85 degrees F. If the incident is near the ocean, we will just have the ambulatory patients go wash off in the surf.
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Now that is out of the box thinking! Very cool idea Ben. It's too bad we don't all have 85˚F oceans in our backyards...
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Another advantage of the Right Coast. We don't have that nasty, cold Alaska current freezing our surf.
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