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Online Hazmat WMD Training: Engine Pump Discharge Water Temperature
This is the first in a series of training that I am putting together for FFN members to look at the individual components involved with hazmat WMD response. I have no idea if this is something that will be of interest but will take a wait and see approach before exploring some other topics.
This discussion focuses on providing emergency water supplies for a hazmat WMD event. There are several options out there for controlling the water temperature for an event. This is certainly "out of the box" thinking. If you can't make the water hot from your engines pump, then where can you find hot water
in an emergency?
Engine Pump Discharge Temperature:
* I've done this in the past, but it was not necessarily done on purpose... and I know that I am not the only one who lost the pumps prime... right? But can this be done in a controlled manner? Anyone thought about this?
This is an important factor when dealing with providing personnel decontamination in cold weather. Hypothermia is a definite risk factor that can be prevented. Spraying ice cold water on people could do a lot of harm, especially when dealing with the elderly, very young or medically compromised.
To not plan ahead and thinking about how you can make water warm is not something to shine on. Just think in terms of your family having to go through an emergency decontamination outside of a shopping mall, including soap and water that makes use of ice cold water. No one should be tortured because your department did not take the time to preplan this need. So how have you prepared for this?
TCSS,
CBz
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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somehow those far left coast alaskans just seem to get by don't you know!
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Dunno, Cap. I think it's gonna' be tough to decon with snow.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Restrict the airflow through the radiator of the apparatus by covering the grill, causes the engine to run hotter. Open the bypass cooler which will help warm the water to the pump, and keep recirculating the booster tank water. If it was started at the onset while setting the decon area up, depending on the size of the tank, the water would heat up quicker than cavitating the pump. If the engine started running too hot, just uncover the grill.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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Capt. Busy, This post has my attention and thanks for the topic to which it has my interest into the discussions. Here in my county on January 6. 2005 at 2:40 in the morning, we had a train collide into another. A switch that was not properly put back in place caused a train to leave the main track, and diverted to a side spur track, to which another train was parked on for the night.
The collision caused a derailment, and with that came a chlorine gas leak that killed 9, and exposed 250 people that had to be treated for injuries.
It was a cold early morning incident when decon was set up, and those that were exposed had to experience a cold water decon. I remember one of the personnel that was involved in the process commenting on how the victims were shivering from the process.
If you, or anyone else could share how warm water could be distributed for victims when time is critical, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank You.
Assistant Chief: Rusty Mancini
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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Hey Rusty, I think I saw that on a TV show about train wrecks. They had interviewed the Chief at the time. Looked like a very bad situation from the get go. Of course most train wrecks are due to the fact that they are carrying hazardous materials that shouldn't be mixed together and these material may only be separated by 2 or 3 different cars. Well when the train crashes, those cars may disappear from between the hazmat cars then you have trouble.
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heating up MCI structures... if you by chance know a drywall contractor, it is not uncommon for this trade to make use out of portable heaters for curing the fresh mud after installation of drywall and taping... these things sound like a jet engine but sure put out the heat.
couple this device with an inflatable structure and you are providing a way for patients to warm up, preventing hypothermia.
I understand that this does not address the water decon issues but it does address immediately providing a means for warming patients up, and again, preventing hypothermia.
CBz
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yea, but at least all the pores are closed... :D lol
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CBz, Using a salamander heater in a plastic/rubber tent is asking for trouble.
The hazards include:
1. open flames at the heater
2. combustible liquids used as fuel
3. carbon monoxide produced, then projected into a closed space with the patients
I'm not sure I agree with you on this particular method.
We can test the CO theory by using an atmospheric monitor after setting up the decon/shelter tent and running the salamander heater for a while.
Even if you use the electrical versions, they still are a fire hazard due to the high heat, plus you are mixing electricity and water in close proximity. (Electrocution hazard)
I don't want to be the crash test dummy for the flame test, though.
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Dude, Cali is mega-bankrupt right now. They'll probably be calling NH for mutual aid. :-)
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My thoughts exactly.
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I don't believe anyone has had to deal with this. But when it comes time for an incident that is large enough to require mass decontamination, it basically all boils down to the feds getting involved. Why? The entire country operates on first responders doing what they can and calling in mutual aid. If this does not work or if it still overwhelms the local resources and mutual aid sources within the individual state, then the feds get involved through the EPA should an incident be large enough.
The EPA responds what is called START Teams, which are made up of subject matter experts to deal with the incident. If you have nukes, then you get radiological teams, regardless of the team type, the incident is overseen by the OCC, or On Scene Coordinator. They handle the incident, which includes post-incident mitigation. This includes returning any facilities used for the incident back to new condition, free of any contamination, and in many cases, much better than the original area or structure. Superfund money or other hazmat release funding sources should handle any needed cleanup or remediation that occurs from the decontamination process. Additionally, businesses can be compensated for loss of revenue because of the incident.
I would highly recommend for chief officers, getting to know who your OCC is for your area. Establishing a relationship with this individual will prove to be very valuable for your and your organization should a hazardous materials release occur that forces you to look for facilities that you can use to perform the decontamination.
If the incident involves WMD types of things (NBC+E) or nuclear, biological, chemical or exposives), then it's a given that the military will be there, using the local National Guard Unit that specialized in these types of incidents. Every state has a National Guard Civil Support Team or CST. Again, taking the time to meet these folks and train with them ahead of time is the key here. Check out the below website I put together after working with our local CST on an exercise involving all the fire and ems for the area.
http://www.silcom.com/~pordecon/2004_novex.htm
The FD ICP, with the Incident Commander (white helmet), CST, FBI, CA State Parks, Other Fire Dept folks... working together at a mock incident, preparing for the worse.
Hopefully, this answers both yours and Ben's question about private establishments and the impact. I maintain very close ties with my EPA buddies so if you have any questions, please email me.
CST Commander and FBI Discuss Mock Incident
Additionally, you also need to work with your local FBI agent(s) to preplan this type of event. They want to be included and part of the response. They also bring with them checkbooks to the party like the EPA.
CBz
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Skin or Eye Contact
If any alkali metal fragment or drop enters the eye, it will immediately generate considerable heat, which is likely to result in severe eye injury. In such cases, the eyes should be flushed on scene with water for no less than 20-minutes. Continue to flush the eye with water from the scene to the hospital. In many cases the solution to pollution is dilution...
Consider rigging up a nasal cannula to a 1-Liter Normal Saline IV bag. Invert the bag, and have the NS flow through the nasal cannula that is fitted on the patient upside down to enable the NS to irrigate both eyes simultaneously. This works very well and provides more comfort for the patient.
When alkali metal comes in contact with the skin, remove all contaminated clothing. If contact with the metal occurs at only one or two spots on the skin, it is best to wash off those areas with mineral oil.
A container with at least one quart of mineral oil should be available in alkali metal work areas labeled for this purpose. If contact with the metal is widely distributed over the body, a decision on the best course of first aid must be made immediately. If the material is already burning, the individual should be drenched continually under a safety shower until emergency help arrives. If the material is not burning, the metal should be removed by wiping the skin with mineral oil. In all cases, this is a true medical emergency.
CBz
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