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Offensive Emblems On Equipment
I was readiung Statter911 abut Emont FD of NY. There were issues with a confederate flag in the firehouse and on the emblem. As an African American I do find this offensive. Someone commented that Chapel Oaks an African American Fire company has a black panther as a "mascot" Now to me one is offensive and one is not. Looking at Chapel Oaks Website (they are my companies sister company) using the animal as opposed to a Huey Newton Black Panther is totally different. Just like companies use, owls, bulldogs, alligators, chickens...okay you get the point. I would be the first, maybe the second to say the Huey Newton Black power first would be a wrong emblem, cool but wrong. They want to be called the rebels but to me there are hundreds of images that denote rebelishness without denoting slavery.
We had debated in adding a green strip to out black over red engines. for you whipper snappers red, black & green was used to show black unity on flags in the 60's and 70's. The problem was that while we are considered a "black" fire company (even though we've always been intergrated) we wanted to be known as a fire company, period.
My question to the gallery is, what do you consider offensive.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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The stars and stripes flew over slavery a whole lot longer than the stars and bars.
Just sayin'
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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my membership in the IABPFF was not racist or seperatist. Their goal is to educate, promote and expose members of the black community to the fire service. They also put on seminars and other educational events that make the fire service more approachable to black americans who may see the fire service as a white dominated profession because of current and or past beliefs.
While the IABFF may push for such goals here, they have also tarnished their image (IMO) in many places when it has come to testing. I have seen mention of a representative of the IABFF talking out against such testing standards in some of the big cities like FDNY, Philly, DC and so forth. Reality comes down that the tests are not racist nor discriminatory, but the fact that one needs to also study and take such tests seriously. The IABFF does not do well promoting an image of professionalism and approachable fire service when they claim such tests are biased and discriminatory.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Pre-civil war
The stars and stripes flew over a nation that condoned but restricted slavery.
The stars and bars flew over states that demanded slavery.
Bit of a difference.
Civil war
Where the stars and stripes flew, slavery was banned.
Where the stars and bars flew, slavery was de rigueur.
Bit of a difference.
Post civil war
Stars and stripes - equality and liberty for everyone
Stars and bars - longing for pre-civil war days.
Just sayin'...
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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I like to refer to it as the drone syndrome.
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Just because some hate group took the confederate flag as their symbol does not mean that the people of the south should distance themselves from their heritage.... Come on..... What you are now saying is that if a hate group decides to us the American flag as their symbol then the heritage folks should distance themselves from that Flag because it is now associated with a hate group.....
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You know what Craig, here is a little lesson from a white girl.... I spent my life being treated like dirt cause I am Polish and my family is Jehovah's Witness. I do not know what the words are to the Pledge of Alligance because we were not allowed to learn them. I cannot tell you what the words are to the National Anthem. I have no clue about the history of the US because I had to leave the classroom. I seriously hated my life and when I was a teenager I attempted suicide because I could not handle it. My oldest sister had a breakdown at 6 and spent months in the hospital, by twin has issue of severe depression. My brother is now the twon drunk, and my other older sister is the town druggie. My twin fared a bit better than me, but deals with depression now. So don't give me this load of BS. It does not matter what your skin color is there are racists out there and there will always be racists out there. The choice is yours to either succumb to it or rise above it. I prefer to rise above the stupidity of others and I am thankful that even though I detested my life it made me who I am today.
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Patti,
At a distance/glance, people don't have a clue what your ethnicity or religious beliefs are. On the other hand, at a distance/glance people can tell that Craig is black. Someone would actually have to MEET and talk with you to decide they don't like you.
Someone else would only have to SEE Craig to make that same determination.
THAT is a significant difference.
Also, based on your narrative your family is f**ked up. But then, in the next generation all of that will go away and no one will ever know that you were polish or a JW. Craig's kids are still going to be black.
THAT is a significant difference as well.
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At a glace they saw us going door to door..... At a glance they saw that my features were differnt than what they were used too... Yeah they knew who we were and what were were doing.... Mine was corrected mostly by moving out of my parents home and eventually I had reconstructive surgery (car accident was a blessing). I realize that Craig cannot change his appearance. I am not trying to diminish Craigs thoughts, but at the same time there will always be one racist pig or another out their trying to make someone feel less than what they. They may not like your skin color, your eye color, your facial features, your religion, your accent, your ??? You don't have to be black/red/yellow/purple/green/blue/orange to experience this.
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Patti,
No is isn't always about the color of one's skin. But it usually is.
Like I said, your kid(s) won't necessarily have to deal with what you dealt with, Craig's kids will. Also, there are a couple hundred years of prosecution, prejudice, hatred and exclusion in Craig's personal history as a result of his skin. I don't think the same can be said about your background.
P.s. Craig I hope you don't take any offense to my referencing you in my replies.
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Permalink Reply by Russ on
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LOL "Cant we all just get along?"...oh yea we tried that, didnt work. i know what he means, using myself as an example, i was not born in africa, i dont know anyone from there, i've never been there, i dont plan to go in the forseeable future and considering that my mother was slowly going blind from a disease indiginous to native americans i guess that means i've lost TWO countries to the white man...(keep laughing) and remember Tom Hagen was German Irish and don corleon still made him consigleari. we all have our place of the game board of life, stay safe, back at ya
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John i hate to open this can of worms in this thread but let me say up front i agree with you.
I took a lot of heat for my opinion about the testing scandal because my opinion was that that throwing out a test because "not enough minorities passed it" was BS to me. i worked my ass of in college and got my degree in fire science and i took it as a personal insult that a judge made such a ruling. it suggests (in my opinion) that blacks COULD NOT pass the test.
The inside dope i got was that the ones that did pass had the answers in advance
my solution was bring in third party testing which is what we do in florida which insures a level playing field. they broke out the tar and feathers for me to which i responded "so you agree?, we's colored folks muss get ours own tes-es to we can knows what dem white boys knows too". as part of the generation of blacks that have made the most strides in advancing in a carrear (in the post period of overt attempts to prevent employment and promotion). i was deeply offended by the ruling.
But John lets face facts. it has been proven that that there has been "shenaggans" when it comes to testing in NY, Philly and DC. even you have to face the fact that with equal access to testing material, there HAD to be some "fixing" because the odds simply dont add up that only "a few minorities passed" espically on big tests. and you using my quote out of context with the origional post, i'm just gonna suck up and agree with you on this subject alone but i will stick to it to my grave that THIRD PARTY TESTING INSURES A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD! and i wont get off it. in retirement i have participated in testing boards and i have rated low those men, women, white black, hispanic, who didnt make the cut for me.
WHY?
because like probie school there is an obligation to promomote those who are QUALIFIED
In my own expierence i was passed over for promotion because in my oral board i gave textbook answers. i figured it out on my own that they wanted to know what "I" would do in the situation i was presented with not what the book said and thats the standard i apply when i'm on a promotion board.
i hope i did not offend you too much but i felt that being a minority i should express my true feelings because those that know me also know that i believe that true equality can never be achieved, it will take a strong individual who has the courage to stand up and say NO this is wrong. i welcomed your comment and again i respect your opinion
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