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Mayday. At what point do you just need to call in the RIT team?
Recently my department heald training at our county's smoke house. during one of the evolutions a proby from one of the other dparments panicked while inside, the two other men on his hoseline had to DRAG him out. the team anounced the exit but didn't call a mayday, by the time they got to the door myself and other members of the rit team noticed that he was unconscious. He turned out to be ok. but do you think they were right in handling it themselfs or should they have called a mayday and let the rit come in and help... I mean isn't that why we were there?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Jocelyn Chiasson on
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Sorry Capt. not to pick on you but i thing the term is LUNAR and the ..A.. is for how much air you have left in your scba!!
Be safe brother!!
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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I like the term "NAMEIT" for maydays....N...Name and rank A...Apparatus M...Mission E...Emergency I...Intentions(self help) T...Time (est time left of air supply and fire/heat conditions)...Example....Mayday...Mayday...Mayday, This is Firefighter Smith, Ladder 6 Div 2,Search...I have Fire blocking my primary egress,I need a ground ladder to the bravo window for escape...I need the ladder soon, I only have bedroom door for protection...ACTIVATE PASS ALARM...!!!!
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the guy was unconscious....thats not an emergency...? Cardiacs can occur in training as well as a fire scene.....
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Your welcome Capt. : )
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Permalink Reply by John on
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Rit should be called upon as soon as there is a noted problem, Whether its disorientation, low air, or a trap, it should be called at that time.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Call the MAYDAY as soon as you realize that another firefighter is in trouble.
Reluctance to call the MAYDAY wastes time that could give RIT a head start toward rescuing the firefighter in distress.
This problem is so widespread that the U.S. Fire Administration has program entitled Calling the Mayday which trains firefighters in Mayday procedures including the two most critical ones - Don't be embarassed to call a Mayday if you need to, and specific procedures to follow when you do call a Mayday.
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Permalink Reply by Thad Rather on
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I understand this was training but I believe a mayday should have been called but with a quick size-up on the issue. As a training officer we try to make our training as useful as possible. Weather it was just smoke or a live training burn. Rit teams are hard to get good training because if you are doing rit training then you know you are going to be called. The best training is when you are not ready for it. I can see what the crew was thinking not calling maybe because it was training but treating training as the real thing is best for all.
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Permalink Reply by samuel Potter on
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well john you were correct i am am jr. and it was not a live fire drill. the instructor was in the the bulding but in the back (at the exit of the tunnel that they were in). the problem that he faced was that the smoke was extremely dense and the only thermal was in the tunnel with them. also this was the probys first ever fireground experance and when they called the exit the the team never explaned the problem. as far as emergence egress points, there were windows but in that instance the best way out was the way they came in. the rit team inself was comprised of myself and three other ff all of which were packed up and ready to go.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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the guy was unconscious....thats not an emergency...? Cardiacs can occur in training as well as a fire scene.....
I'm not insinuating that Paul. I am basing my information about the conditions, the setting, and the training. I was not there to see what happened, but seems I was the only one to ask about the setting.
What I could see is someone freaking out to the point of hyperventilating and it is possible they passed out. The OP states when they got the FF out he was unconscious. The OP is also a jr FF and may not be educated in knowing what happened, nor to identify unconsciousness.
As for calling a MAYDAY, I also mentioned about calling EMERGENCY TRAFFIC or an URGENT message. Of which makes crews on the fireground aware of a problem, but doesn't necessarily require a RIT activation. A panicked FF may not need a RIT response, especially if the people with the FF can try and calm them down, but should be relayed to notify IC and crews. In this situation this was a smokehouse with NO fire and instructors present, etc. The RIT team was comprised of at least one jr FF.
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when they called the exit the the team never explaned the problem.
Lesson learned.
Thank you for a more thorough explaination.
the rit team inself was comprised of myself and three other ff all of which were packed up and ready to go.
Can you elaborate a bit on what type and how much training you and the other members have had in RIT?
Also, were MAYDAY procedures and RIT responses clearly explained prior to the training evolutions taking place?
This may help with some other questions here. I see many posts replying about MAYDAY and RIT and calling the MAYDAY and so forth. As Ben Waller mentions there is MAYDAY training out there, because it was found that too often people thought they would just know when to call a MAYDAY.
My issues here are concerning more along the lines of the training environment. If everyone operating on the training ground has received training in MAYDAY and RIT, such as members of a single dept who normally work together, then having "students" as RIT can suffice. However, if there is a mixed training, then MAYDAY and RIT should be clearly explained prior to the evolutions taking place.
While in fire school with members of different depts, the instructors would be the RIT team if there was an issue and yet again procedures were clearly stated if a problem occurred. Perhaps in this case that wasn't clearly explained or those inside may not have not have either recalled or may not have really understood.
The issue I see is that you are a jr FF, which leads me to believe there were other jr FFs doing this training or even people without really a clear understanding of their duties. If you were on a RIT team as a jr FF, do you really know what your duties are? Depending on the scenario you describe and that this sounds like a confined space, just sending in a RIT team may not be the correct move here. Whereas had the inside team stated that a FF was panicking, then the evolution could have stopped and the instructor(s) evaluate the needs required. Basically sending in people unfamiliar in RIT operations may potentially compound the problem.
Sounds like the biggest issue was the lack of communication and potentially confusion of MAYDAY procedures prior to the training starting.
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There should never be any confusion about Maydays....it doesn't matter if it is training or a fire scene...a Mayday is a Mayday.....someone is in trouble....
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There should never be any confusion about Maydays....it doesn't matter if it is training or a fire scene...a Mayday is a Mayday.....someone is in trouble
I agree, however, there is a huge difference between calling a MAYDAY and having people who are not trained nor understand what their job is. That is my point here. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon about when and how to call a MAYDAY and so forth, I am looking at the incident picture here.
To say there should never be confusion when to call a MAYDAY is correct. Yet, one can not just expect people with little to no real training to respond accordinly, which is why in such a training environment, the procedures and recognition of a problem should be clearly explained. Also a RIT team should also be comprised of people trained in RIT who know what to do. In case you didn't see, the OP is a jr FF and was on the RIT team. Which is why I question the level of knowledge of the students and if such issues were clearly explained by the instructors.
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