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Looking for Opinions on Thermal Imaging Cameras Please!
I recently got a small grant for our department, and we are finaly looking to buy a TIC. We have seen 2 demos in the past month, one for MSA and one for Scott. My question to all is what kind of experience have you had with either of these cameras, good or bad.
The MSA model is a 5600 with truck charger and lanyard hanger, one battery, training and support, for $6900. (Special sale ending 3/15/12, then its just the camera for $12,000)
The Scott is an Eagle Attack Thermal Imager, with truck charger and extra battery, glow in the dark covers for the camera, DVR recording feature for 6 hours of imagery recording, training and support with loaners if ours is down for repairs for $6700 (regular price)
We were partial to the Scott, its smaller and more lightweight, easier to use, not so many bells and whistles to get our members confused with, has the recorder that we can use to rate our interior crews' ability to search or just to see what they saw, has the glow in the dark hoods and handle covers, VERY durable too. When I asked the salesman showing us the MSA about durability he simply said "Yes, its very durable". When I asked the Scott salesman about durability he grabbed the camera, and started pounding it on the counter simulating a crawling firefighter, than held it up for me to see, the image was still crystal clear and no interference. Than he threw the camera on the table, picked up the gas meter he was showing us and threw that on the table with a smile on his face. THATS durability and backing up a product.
WHats your thoughts and opinions, and please feel free to give me both positive and negative, we would like to know about anything about these cameras before we spend the money.
Thank you all.
Moose
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
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We looked at Scott and MSA when we bought ours. A neighboring department had a MSA and said it worked ok but wished they had went with the Scott instead. We bought the Scott and have had great luck with it. It's been dropped down stairs and dropped down a chimney (Not sure how that happened) and has gotting wet and has not had to be repaired. We have also found it much easier to use then the neighbors MSA. Ours is 3 years old but works great. I would go with the Scott.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Tinsley MacKenzie on
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in nz they are very popular and most paid stations have them and some of the volly stations too, i think they are great
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Well for the most part, you can't go wrong with either, it isn't like one company really has more of a niche in the market. To be honest, I have not used a SCOTT, but wouldn't hesitate to go with it. We have one MSA on the dept on one of the rigs and it is our second oldest TIC. (The oldest are a first version ARGUS and on our spare rigs). We also have BULLARD on the rest of the rigs. Ihave seen the BULLARD dropped from a second story window onto concete and only the retractable lanyard was broken. (that was also the second unit dropped that week during training). We have not had any issues with the MSA and it has served us well.
For me, I would ask both vendors for a chance to use their TIC for say a month, or at least a couple weeks. Train with it, use it, give it a good test. I would think the MSA vendor would give the sales price after such a trial period, if they don't.....well I would say the answer is pretty clear on who to go with.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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We have a mix of MSA 5400 HD2s and 5800s. We carry one TIC on every frontline engine, quint, and truck as well as two reserve engines and the battalion. Training also has one for monitoring live burn and zero-viz training. We like them and have had good service from them. The only issue we had is one that had the lens destroyed by a firefighter crawling and spearing the lens on an exposed nail. MSA repaired the TIC. I'm unsure if it cost us anything more than shipping or not.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Moose thats a great price brother. I have attached an article I wrote on purchasing a new thermal imager. Currently I use Bullard and ISG in my two different departments.
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The research and purchase of a thermal imager is not a simple task and is definitely one that should not be taxed upon a single person within your fire department. Whether purchasing a camera through an acquired grant, hard earned fundraiser money or taxpayer's cash from the capital improvement program, the costs associated with this purchase justifies creating a small thermal imager committee. The committee should steer the process of research, contacting manufacturer representatives and scheduling camera demos for hands-on evaluation.
I would also recommend acquiring as much literature as possible on each brand, assigning a committee member to research each product thoroughly before contacting the manufacturer representative. It means once a product demo has been scheduled, the committee will be educated on that specific product and can maximize the demo time with the representative. Once the demonstration is completed, always inquire if the demo camera can be left, so your membership can further review and evaluate the product without time constraints.
The committee as a whole should have basic knowledge of how a thermal imager works and understand the different technologies available to us from the industry. Not all thermal imagers are designed the same. For instance, your committee should understand that infrared energy seen by a thermal camera will be focused onto a focal plane array (FPA). The electronics that are connected to the FPA will create what some fire service instructors describe as "the engine." This engine senses energy, calculates the relative differences between objects and then prepares that data for your eyes to view on the display screen.
When charging a TIC committee to evaluate the potential purchase of a new camera, I suggest they focus on 10 key features to create a solid product evaluation. In my experience, firefighters may at times get hooked on the latest “bells and whistles” that a manufacturer has recently developed. While these can be nice to have, they may be seldom used in the field.
Here are the top 10 things to consider when buying a thermal imager:1. Size and weight
2. Ease of use, body ergonomics
3. Battery life
4. Ruggedness – Durability – Field proven
5. Display screen: size, resolution, color, advanced options
6. Temperature Reading Sensor vs. Pyrometer
7. Upgradeability
8. Apparatus mountable, apparatus charging capabilities
9. Cost
10. Warranty
There are three common types of engine technology used in fire service thermal imagers:
BST (Barium Strontium Titanate) technology
BST technology is the most common and is known for its past performance within the fire service.VOx (Vanadium Oxide) technology
This is just one type of microbolometer. VOx microbolometers are now very popular in the fire service for their good quality image.Amorphous silicon (aSi) technology
This is the newest technology afforded to us and is also another type of microbolometer. It is well known for its compact size and relatively low cost to the end user.Remember, with each of these different types of technologies you may find advantages to your specific organizational needs as well as a wide difference in the costs associated with each internal technology.
Besides the purchasing of the camera itself, there's another important aspect to consider – training your firefighters how to actually use it. Let's think about opening our mindset to not only focus on how many of these cameras we can purchase for X amount of money. The thermal imager is only one tool in the firefighter’s toolbox and we all know this can only be an advantage if the end user is fully trained and understands its capabilities and/or limitations.
FETC Services
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Permalink Reply by Tyler R Donivan on
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we have the eagle attack at our station i don"t think there's anything better it never failed for us. it performs amazing. the other fire department in our second due has the msa and they complain about it all the time i mean it has shut off many time while in in a fire on them and the batteries was all the way charged. but if i was you id go with the scott
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Yes, the MSA has the battery saver mode, I believe it shuts off after 30 minutes or so and you have to hit the button again to reactivate it. I dont like the huge "D" shaped handle that can snag on stuff when its hanging from the lanyard.
@ FETC- thanks for the article brother, very informative! I printed it and will show it to the non-believers in our dept who think we dont need one. We went to the commisioners meeting the other night and presented it to them...they ended up passing the motion to purchase the Scott Eagle Attack TIC!! We are finally catching up to the 21st century and it feels good. We also purchased the Scott Protege 4 Gas Meter, which they will calibrate for us 3 times a year for $35 which isnt bad. We got all of that for under $8,000. I cant wait to get it in service and train our members on it.
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to tell you the truth brother its not that hard for the TIC all you got to do is push the left button first hold it while you go a head and hit the right hold both of them until it comes on then to put it in sleep mode push both again in the same process and to turn it off do the same exact thing but hold it and it should say hold to power off or shut down or something and then your good to go
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