should juniors be allowed to ride ambulance and have patient contact. a junior can see something bad on an MVA but should they help treat it. EMS had more physcological damage then fire, should juniors be allowed to do ems too. if yes, why and what good comes of it, if no why not?

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Kind of interesting that no one has posted here since my rebuttal and stating the obvious... .

Mike (AKA Capt. Busy), are you really making a rebuttal of that nature to a kid? Really? Who's the kid in this situation? 

      Obviously, you are going to be one of those people who looks down upon, younger people in the fire service. Sometimes, I wish there would be more supporters, but us junior are just gonna have to roll with the punches.

      Juniors and the Ambulance, lets see, I will start with my opinion first. I think that Juniors on/in an ambulance is a terrible idea  unless they are trying to get there EMS license. The ambulance has made me grow up and see the fire service in a different way. It has actually made me mature more. I will be taking my written test for my EMT-B license this summer and I will be only 17. I think, if you are not in or finished an EMT-B class then you shouldn't be on medical calls period, unless its a lift assist.

       To the Post Above. Your trying to just start a argument. I help with fire prevention, birthday parties, etc. and I'm not a "REAL" Firefighter. I'm 17 years old and I have my Firefighter 1 & 2 and testing for my EMT-B, I did both those in the same semester as my senior year in high school and I'm not mature enough to be on ambulance? Yes, SOME juniors can be a liability but there no reason to bash us all. Yes, we may mess up sometimes, and you may get tired of all our questions but the smart people will correct us and answer our questions because guess what, when your old and wrinkly and need help, guess who coming.. my generation. 

Brandon, I helped start an explorer post for "kids" several years ago and prior to that was a scoutmaster... I don't look down on kids, but instead have served as a mentor. With that said, my points above were not for "kids" to learn the trade but to do so, but not in an IDLH environment or providing patient care in the back of an ambulance or at an accident scene. Enough people have outlined the liability factors and just plain common sense why this is a bad idea. Going through the motions of doing hose lays, setting up equipment and learning how to do the job is a great thing for young folks to do prior to being the legal age to be involved with actual responses. 

The photograph of the original posting individual reflects someone who looks to be 14-15 years old, way to young to be an active firefighter or EMT. You on the other hand like many others are doing things to prepare themselves for this inherently dangerous profession. We are on the same page in regard to someone taking an EMT class, again not something that a child in grammar school or Junior High School would typically be involved with. I was 17 when I took my first training but was never involved with actual emergency responses, only training for my future career goals, just like you are doing.

I think one of the key points of my discussion was the dumbing down of FFN with the influx of mindless discussions from Junior Firefighters when the intent of this site was to cater to actual firefighters, not children. Having been involved and posting here for over three years now, I have witnessed the lack of substance and salient thought when people post discussion topics. This post exemplifies this point.

Asking questions and taking the time to compose an intelligent post and response like you have illustrates that the next generation of emergency responders is preparing themselves for dealing with the myriad of situations that you will encounter. Quite a difference from many of the senseless what color are your fire trucks or helmet post genre that makes many of us shake our heads. 

Take the time to read through any of the posts that I have authored and please note that I have never not answered questions or shared information without prejudice to the age of the individual, including my answering and commenting on your post. Some FFJR's can and are indeed a liability, but don't assume that I am putting everyone in the same category. Take yourself for example, you obviously are a cut above the rest. The cream always rises to the top...

I hope there is still some "kid" in me after spending 40 years doing this gig and surviving a massive coronary. As I had hoped, one of the brighter up and coming firefighters took notice to what I posted and engaged. This is a good thing and helps clarify exactly what I and several others shared as an opinion in regard to liability and common sense issues regarding children playing firefighter...

I appreciate your championing our younger members but take the time to read what myself and others said. There is a time and place for kids under the legal age of 18 to participate in our profession. What we don't need are adults leading the charge with children in tow, to learn the job ending up like a firefighters with literally children watching and learning when he choose to direct a hose stream on burning metal, resulting in an explosion and children needless being injured from the event. Is this what you are supporting? I don't think so and I certainly don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense would either.

If this post and conversation brings light to that point, then yes, supporting the rebuttal is a good thing. To not do so would be irresponsible, just like your intended inflammatory comment directed to me...

"Ryan, you have absolutely nothing to offer me personally, nor anyone else on the site. You should read things and learn from seasoned veterans and even that is a stretch because many times the subject matter is intended for adult readers, not children. The fact that you don't take the time to spell check your post pretty much exemplifies your lack of education and ability to grasp many concepts necessary to understand the job. Again, a waste of time for any of the folks out there that this site was originally intended for."  Really? My response to you, is a simple one...This is a kid you are speaking to, one that would be interested in entering in to and continuing our chosen profession.  He asked a simple question, requiring a simple answer. As a "mentor" shouldn't WE in the fire service, see to helping this KID understand why things are the way they are and not drop to insults, intended or not. He's sparking conversation, one that you've chosen to participate in. Most of the kids his age are sitting in front of computer screens playing video games. Ryan, on the other hand is learning about the profession he has a passion for and would like to enter later in life, meaning that he's already ahead of the game. I truly applaud his motivation and desires. Instead of doing the same, you chose to utilize you're years of service to point out grammatical errors of a kid. Now there's real mentoring for ya! If the site is going in a direction you don't agree with, why comment at all? Why not look for greener pastures, or write a nasty letter to the Webmaster instead of directing your frustrations at a kid.

Steve, Forgive me if I'm not getting something here but this site is intended for the Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters. I'm assuming there is a reason the web chief capitalized the word "JUST". I have no agenda here like you apparently do to include non-firefighters as part of this site. Hence my opinion and attitude that if one is not a firefighter, then they need to stick to Facebook for their entertainment and social needs. Helping kids is not necessarily a key component of this site. Perhaps if you promote to the rank of company officer where you have responsibilities past your myopic opinions, then you would have a different attitude and less of a tolerance for raising children on line.

Just loved your suggestion to look for greener pastures as if my years of experience are of no value to the intended audience of this site. Do you feel the same way toward other "older" firefighter that have posted negatively toward Ryan? Are you suggesting that anyone what has actual firefighting experience and opinions different from yours should move on to greener pastures? Or are you just focusing on me because I find it silly for a 14-15 years old to take up space here on the FFN...

Regardless of the age of anyone here on this site, not spell checking and coming off as an illiterate or in this case an undereducated child isn't something that reflects much of an education, which at least in my world is a necessity should one desire to become a firefighter. The competition and economy dictates that you stay one step ahead of your competition. This is especially true if one desires to promote up the ranks. Let me know when you get to that point, then maybe we might have something meaningful to discuss.

Funny, reading what is advertised for the website it actually reads "Firefighter Nation is the social network for firefighters, rescue & EMS, connecting fire departments, firefighters & first responders." When a person develops a page the questions are how are you affiliated and lists Juniors as an option.  Again, being that you are missing my point, if you have a problem with the fact that juniors are allowed on here, write to the webmaster and complain. Being oh so less tactful in addressing the shortcomings of a kid is just plain ignorant.  

"Do you feel the same way toward other "older" firefighter that have posted negatively toward Ryan?" If they have addressed him in the same manner you've chosen to, absolutely. There's constructive negativity and destructive negativity. You can get your point across in a constructive manner that doesn't make you sound like a grumpy old man. Would you address any other kid on the street like this? Or is it because he so deeply offended you by joining a group that you feel he doesn't belong in. Again, you're issue should be addressed with the webmaster if you don't want juniors on the site.

"What we don't need are adults leading the charge with children in tow, to learn the job ending up like a firefighters with literally children watching and learning when he choose to direct a hose stream on burning metal, resulting in an explosion and children needless being injured from the event." Again, simple answer that doesn't require you to drop to the level of insults. Most if not all Junior programs prevent their members from being in the hot zone of emergency incidents, some restrict them all together from going on emergency calls. So the above statement is purely hyperbole.    

Attacking a kid because you don't think he should be on the site, wasn't aware that was a part of the skill set of a company officer. Where can I sign up for that class? Surely it wasn't apart of the leadership courses...

Steve, with all due respect for you because I do not know you above what you have in your profile, I do know the Captain enough from talking to him through this site on emails about Haz-Mat stuff, I respect the hell out of him as a person and a firefighter and respect his opinion.

I see no harm in his replies to the junior.  As a junior firefighter way back when in a busy department on Long Island NY, we were talked to by the firefighters like they were marine corp boot camp drill seargents, and we took it.  We were told that we were nothing, we were not worth pissing on us if we were on fire.  We took it and when they saw we could take it they took us under their wings and showed us everything about firefighting.  They wanted to make sure we could take abuse and perform under stressful situations.

I believe he meant no harm, and was trying to get this young brother of ours to see his position in the grand scheme of things and realize he has a long way to climb up that ladder.


Ryan, I hope that is how you took his posts and not as a personal insult to you.  Keep your ears and eyes open and when a firefighter talks, shut up, listen, and learn.  Good luck to you in your chase to be a firefighter.

If they are QUALIFIED I don't see a problem in it, assuming they have the maturity level to be able to handle it. But that is something that should be ultimately determined by the advisors. Again, I don't see an issue, assuming they are qualified. For instance, about 3 months ago, I ran a full arrest. It was me, the senior captain (non-EMT), and our 17yo junior Lt. who is a certified first responder. The junior played football in high school, so needless to say (due to upper body strength) I put him on compressions. He has been in the dept for 3yrs and is one of our top responders, so he has seen plenty already. I know for a fact that he has the maturity level, and I trust him honestly more than some of our actual firefighters. It is their choice what calls they run, d they believe they can handle it, then so be it. But that being said, there are and should be restrictions in place.

I completely agree. I may have misread the discussion topic, I was speaking mostly on the side of junior firefighter.  I do agree that junior EMS is pushing the limits.

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