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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Pat,
To repeat, the method I'm talking about is a short burst from the deck pipe, not continuous operation. It doesn't drive the fire anywhere if you use a solid bore tip and apply the stream for just long enough to get basic knockdown. This is similar to "pencilling" the overhead during an interior firefight. In pencilling, continuous nozzle flow will upset the thermal balance and steam the hose crew look like Larry the Lobster. Short bursts will eliminate combustion without upsetting the thermal balance.
Transitional attacks do the same thing, just from the outside on a larger scale.
There are no firefighters inside to drive the fire onto, because Transitional attacks start on the exterior prior to firefighter entry.
If there are civilians in the immediate area of the fire, they're dead - no one survives that fire intensity, so the master stream can't hurt them. If they're are civilians in an area remote from a rapidly spreading fire, the best way to protect them is to extinguish the most fire possible as quickly as possible. If the deck pipe 750 GPM can beat the hand line 100 GPM to the fire, it passes the Stonewall Jackson test..."Get there the firstest with the mostest." If there's an intact door between the civlians and the fire, then extinguishing the fire as rapidly as possible is the best way to keep the fire from breaching an interior door, and little, if any, smoke or fire will reach the occupants.
There likely is NO "get inside quickly" with a handline in the fires Chris and I showed. In Chris's case, the door is on Side C near the fire. The only way to get a line through the unburned area to protect potential victims is to enter through the rear yard. That involves moving the hoseline down the B side, laddering or breaching a fence, then taking the line in through the rear door. If the door from the house to the garage is open or breached by the fire, opening the exterior rear door is going to suck a huge amount of fire right into the nozzleman's face. 85 or 100 GPM isn't a lot of protection from that.
In the case of the fire I showed, the front (A-side) door was fully involved in the fire. The B-side door was also fully involved in the fire. The D-side door was a lengthy stretch that took time. The deck pipe knocked down 90% of that fire in less than 2 minutes of 750 GPM.
In both cases, the fire is well vented. Most or all of steam the deck pipe produces is going straight up, not into the house. If these were ventilation-controlled fires, I might worry about pushing the fire. They're not - they're fuel-controlled and well-vented, which means that most of the heat - including any steam we produce - is going up, not sideways.
Sometimes, the best way to protect the occupants is to simply put the fire out quickly., particularly in these situations where there's going to be a delay in getting a handline inside, let alone between the fire and the occupants. It's simply a case of putting the maximum amount of water on the fire in the quickest manner.
One other thing - putting the water on the fire from as "close as possible" and as "safe as possible" are usually mutually exclusive.
I'm not anti-interior attacks. I've done plenty in the past 33.9 years. What I'm advocating here is that we do good size-up and use all of the tools in the toolbox. We need to use the tools appropriately, too. Master stream tactics that drive the fire through the building are not the fault of the master stream.
Ben
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It's an Overhaul Thong. I only use it for overhaul and when drinking Tincture of Drywall.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I see, thanks. I'm glad the vinyl finish is rare to non-existent here. Those soffits are also pretty much a thing of the past here. Mind you, a fire on the outside of a house is still going to get through into the roof space here! Light-weight materials used in the construction of the eaves - as well as the rest of the house these days - make our job so much fun!
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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the overhaul thong is only stylish when not worn in conjunction with a SCBA. Happy ripping :)
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I don't know - my brain almost shut down when I misread Arts' post. I first thought he mentioned shaving his buttcrack...
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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I’m going to agree with Philly, I believe this thread has run its course. Ben….your suppose to wear It under your overhauls :)
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Pat, sorry the "Side C near the fire" in my last post should read "Side D near the fire".
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Permalink Reply by Gary Dreyer on
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ok, heres my new take..... thinking historically!!@!@ Remember shermans march to the sea, Atlanta, as well as the San Francisco Earthquake??
Lets think DYNAMITE
that'll stop it
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Pat,
Tempest (PPV fan manufacurer) and several well-respected, long-serving firefighters advocate Positive Pressure Attack. (PPA) In this case, a 3-person engine leads off with the fan without any firefighter entering the structure first. If the fire location is known and there are potential victims, the fan can pressurize the building, push lots of clean air to the floor level where any viable victims will be, and give the engine crew an easy, upright walk to the seat of the fire.
There are several conditions that must be present for this to work, and the first line must immediately follow the fan air into the structure. The conditions include a ventilation-controlled fire in a known location with easy access to a PPV/PPA intake and exhaust point. You don't need to have any search done first for this.
I'll admit that I'm more of a PPV (overhaul mode) supporter than a PPA supporter, but I've seen how PPA can work in situations that don't come close to meeting the conditions you state.
PPV is much more common as a substitute for roof work, not after vertical vent, too.
Chief John Kriska, a frequent FFN contributor, is a subject-matter expert on PPV and PPA, and he can describe what I'm talking about better than can I.
There are also many potential pitfalls in PPV/PPA...just as there are pitfalls in entering burning buildings or in driving a multi-ton truck with red lights flashing and sirens screaming.
Merry Christmas,
Ben
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Chris,
Thanks for the comment. How about we hold the next alarm for a couple of days?
I'd like to stay snugly in quarters for Christmas.
Merry Christmas,
Ben
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Yes Chris, I too would like a quiet Christmas! Well, we had a car fire at 00:20...
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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T'was the night before Christmas, when all through the firehouse,
Not a creature was stirring, not even the house watch.
The coats and turnout gear were hung by the apparatus with care,
In hopes that the bells would be silenced as well.
The crews were nestled all snug in their beds.....
Hope everyone has a quiet and uneventfull shift or period of time over the next 24-48 hours.
Merry Christmas to all, stay safe and have a blessed holiday with those that are close to you.
We'll see if we can take a run in this weekend, until then...look out for one another, stay safe and reflect...
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