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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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It's still simple, simply HUGE, that is. :-)
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Permalink Reply by Pat Murphy on
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Hey, if it works for you, cool!
I won't say "where" but, in my department, this would not FLY! Some of our neighboring agencies do "this" as an SOP. We do not like working with them...why, because they have pushed fires on top of our guys and/or civilians on more than one occasion. If you can tell there are no trapped occupants in a structure before making initial entry, then please tell me how...(minus the homeowner giving you an all clear-this doesn't seem to be a luxury I get to enjoy all that often).
Also, this generates a tremendous amount of steam, that, again upon my experience, will undoubtedly be pushed through the structure and on top of any trapped occupants. If no FFs have made it inside yet, you have no way of knowing if that door into the kitchen is open or closed or burned through. I have to say, I have seen such an approach, master stream and even handlines, turn a SIMPLE garage fire into a complete loss of attic and entire contents. So sad...even embarassing.
Like I said, if it works for you, cool.
On such a small house fire though, my preference is to get inside the living area, protect interior egress routes, main hallway, and trapped occupants with the water I have in the tank first...with or without a hydrant. Civilians don't have that much time.
Get in, find the people, protect the people, put water on the fire as close as possible-as safe as possible.
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As long as:
1) It not in the attic
2) You have no firefighters behind the fire (in the rear)
3) You have an primary and secondary all clear (PSAC)
4) The TRUCK OFFICER/VENT GROUP SUP has PERSONALLY AND VISUALLY VERIFIED that VERTICAL VENTILATION has been completed.
I wouldrather take the personnel and time required to set up the fan to stretch another 85 GPM handline or greater and put more water on the fire.
Again, if it works for...keep on trucking!
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Amen 913, although my chair is not very plush. There are 2 key points to this “simple garage fire”, even though it has expanded; enough resources, and look beyond the fire, or the big picture. If you concentrate all your efforts for the first 10mins trying to douse the fire, then the house next door erupts…well…your in deep do do. Any commander, line officer or FF worth a darn will tell you, the first 10min will dictate the next 10hours. These cyber exercises are great for young and old, nobody does it wrong nobody gets hurt, gets the mind to thinking. So throw your ideas out there, I won’t call them stupid or crazy, I may ask why, remember this is a training thread, and everyone does things differently.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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A special thanks to Ben Waller, Trainer and Engineco913 you guys have hit the mark in terms of what these scenarios and postings are all about- It's to give everyone an edge, to view things not as they are, but what they may be...there's a wealth of learning that can take place in this "somewhat static" platform, BUT the Dynamics created by the viewpoints, perspectives, thoughts and postings of Everyone, creates a learning environment that all can benefit from.
Strategy, tactics, task assignments...they all have variables drive by the unique factors that are present at the time of the actual incident, however effective incident management, company officer oversight and leadership is honed and defined by experience, training, skills, knowledge, intuition, forecasting/recognizing, deciding and assigning. Making decisions, deploying and taking it in. Everyone's contributions are welcomed, its up to all of us to provide insights and at times strong suggestions for a better and safer way of addresing the issues presented by the scenarios. There are always better ways of handling a call..
We learn by doing, and hopefully those that have different perspectives, on the manner in which these incidents play out will gain a respect for the "other way of doing business in the streets". If we can increase the safety margin for everyone, expand proficiencies and enhance skill sets, then we are contributing to some thing bigger...to the brotherhood and to everyone's continued safety on the job…..where ever and what ever that "job" may be. Also...an excellent point on time...you usually dont have enough of it, especially when you need it most...it one thing we can't impose time pressures as you would find on an actual incident. But its a major factor in much of what someone posts in the way of strategies, tactics or task assignments. Sounds good initially, but actually implementing it in an IAP, may result in unfavorable outcomes...
Ok...I think command is ready to give an all clear on this job and start returning companies. But wait...I hear the bells going off and the tones coming in...what?, another run!
I'll get a new posting up tonight...."all companies standby, transmitting an alarm of fire…...numerous calls for a........"
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Has anyone called for a water drop yet?
It's not completely beyond the realm when you look at how densely the area is populated with urban sprawl.
TCSS.
Art
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Here it is.....as requested...........
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Art, I thought about it, but that resource is not available in less than 6 to 8 hours in my area.
If we can't stop it from the ground without the water drop, then the neighborhood is a goner...unless my rain dance works. You probably don't want to see THAT activity at the Command Post. :-)
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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Come on, when did building fires happen on rainy days? :)
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Yo; Ted!
It's called a "loin cloth".
You get a thong from Frederick's of Hollywood. (I've been told)
You get a loin cloth from your Native-American ancestors.
Come on; keep this on track, Chief ShoWing Buttcrack.
TCSS.
Art
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