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Interesting Discussion During Our Last Training (10 mins on the street)
During one of our recent training classes we had a similar drill to the 10 minutes on the street that is so popular on here. It went along the lines of you were notified of a working fire at 3am to the corner of X Street and Y street. You are told that you have numerous reports of a fully involved commercial fire at Walgreen's Pharmacy. You arrive to find on scene to find a confirmed working fire, with fire blowing out the front doors of the store along with the windows on the front side of the building. You are supposed to plan out the next 10 minutes with that information.
As always, there were several different game plans with some being great plans and some you have to wonder about. How would you and your department attack a fire similar to this?
SOP at our department says the first due engine has to hook up to the sprinkler system with the second due engine making the fire attack. How does your department approach sprinkler systems on a fully involved commercial fire?
Hydrants are not a problem in the area of the fire. Your first due assignment to a commercial fire is three engines, 2 trucks, and a squad company. I am interested to hear how your game plans compare to what we thought up.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Kriska on
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Based on the description of the incident, the sprinkler system did not hold the fire in check until arrival of the Fire Department. Why? In all probability because in a Walgrees store there are copious amounts of pressurized cans with flammable gas as their propellent letting loose and feeding the fire. My approach would be to secure an uninterupted supply of water being pumped by a pumper and the largest water flow attack that I could provide. Knock the fire down to a more managable size with my big guns then finish up with hand lines. Big fire, big water. I would also position my two trucks for a defensive operation in the event my intial big water attack does not do the trick.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Great scenario! This looks EXACTLY like the one in our town!!
As for tactics, I think I'd agree with John. It's gonna take a LOT of water to get this fire knocked down. The quicker we get that water moving, the more we're gonna save.
TCSS,
Reg
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Cook on
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Our SOP is for the second due engine to hook up to the sprinkler system, although our SOP's don't directly address fully-involved structures. For this particular fire problem, ignore the sprinkler system. The fire is obviously past the point of control by sprinklers (or they have failed). The amount of fire and type of construction means that we have to be on the look out for a collapse. If the connection is on the building I wouldn't be hesitant to place a fire fighter in danger by hooking up to a system that will fail with the roof system. Our tactics for this fire would be to place a master stream in service at the front door and sweep the ceiling with as much water as possible, probably the fist due trucks pipe or the engine's deck gun. Once the main body of fire is knocked down and the roof system's steel is cooled we would move in for final extinguishment.
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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We don't really have a plan for sprinklers. This has got me thinking now. We are pretty rural but we do have some businesses with sprinklers.
I will give this one a try.
First in will wrap the hydrant, pull up and begin an attack with a 2 1/2 line.
Second in will hook up the hydrant and open it to supply first in and become RIT.
Third engine will be back up with an 1 3/4 line to assist first engine.
Squad will perform S&R once safe enough to enter the structure.
First truck will ventilate.
Second truck will assist with S&R.
I would request at least one EMS unit to the scene.
That's pretty much it. It will definately be an "all hands working" fire.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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I agree with Chief Kriska as well, this fire needs a good blitz attack to make it more manageable for interior ops to mop it up. With a pharmacy you have a mixed fire load; Chemicals, narcotics, cleaning agents, health products, beauty products and all sorts of plastics and methyl ethyl bad shtuff...no need to risk interior personnel when the fire is too far advanced. You have good hydrants and plenty of engines responding, so set up the blitz, hit it with deck guns for a few minutes than re-assess the conditions. If there is no threat to life than protect the exposures and hit it hard.
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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I think one thing to consider on this senerio is that if fire is blowing out of the whole front of the (big box) store what do you think is going on in the rest of the building. At this point i would consider cost versus benifit and possibly go defensive.
TCSS
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