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How would your Dept handle this situation?
In Fairmont MN a LEO and a good samaritan were shot and and another person was found dead. The officer and the civilian were first responders to a house fire.
FAIRMONT, Minn. — Police in southern Minnesota say an officer and Good Samaritan were shot while responding to a house fire, and a third person was found dead nearby.
Fairmont police said in a news release that the officer was the first to arrive at the scene of Tuesday night's fire. They said the Good Samaritan was helping the officer when both were shot. Both have been hospitalized.
Police said that during the course of their investigation, a third person was found dead near the residence. Police did not say how that person died.
Police did not release any additional details about the fire or the shooting, including the victims’ names. However, they said they do not believe there is any further danger to the community..
How would your dept handle this situation?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by WARD on
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I think in this case, especially since the civilian was shot also, it didn't matter who showed up, they were going to get shot at. Most likely if the fire department got there first, they would have been shot at. An isolated case. You would hope that if something bad is going on, the fire department would get notified the scene is not safe, stage nearby.
On some ambulance calls involving police matters the ambulance is told to wait until the scene is secured. Usually it is not life or death type injuries. However, this is not practical on every fire call. As most are just regular type fire calls, not involving police matters.
The firefighter should just have to worry about the fire, where the hydrant is, how to attack the fire, working the hose line and so on. Firefighters do not have an everyday chance of facing weapon use, the same as police do not have the everyday chance of building/wall collapse. But it can happen. Just the same as a firefighter getting struck by a car, or being involved in an accident. Not part of the real job, there is always that chance.
One incident doesn't have to make us change all the policy books. One incident can and should wake us up to reality. 99.9% will never deal with this type incident. But it reminds us anything can happen out there, keep alert, keep safe.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Stevenson on
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Yes, we cannot respond and stage at every fire waiting for PD to clear us in. We have to approach the fire scene as we do every other scene... with situational awareness.
Some PD's are developing training scenarios that address scenes where fire crews have come under fire with possible people down.
http://westcoast911.com/wp/2009/09/03/las-vegas-fire-engine-hit-by-...
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Permalink Reply by kara-lee allen on
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the big bucks?? cops around here dont make much more than me.....
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I knew of an EMS crew member getting accidently shot in Portland by a LEO with his taser but haven't heard of crews wearing BPVs. Where are they wearing them?
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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the stupidist part is that when you live in a small town this is the least of your expectations... to take a bullet going to a seen but that's just it... if there is no previous info over the radio and you wheel up to a fire you aren't expecting it so some one is going to get hurt or killed before you find out. No way of knowing at all. Big city FF's may have this in mind more often then not but small town guys don't and won't know unless you get a heads up on the radio or you jump out of the truck and get shot.In this case if we got the heads up we park around the corner and wait till the C.I.R.T. clears it.
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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Heather, I think I would had to clean my underwear after that.
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Don't think just fire, Are dispatch has sent us to the EMS scenes where they are shooting at each other. Or a nice domestic scene is being unfolded right in front of us. We are very small town and this has happened alot more than it should. One time it was old ladys fighting, I went back to the rescue and waited for law enforcement. I did not sign up to fight or get in the middle of fights. If I wanted to do that I would sign up for the sheriff's reserve.
I don't know what happened if dispatch was not told or if they did not relay the information. This is one of the first things I tell new folks. Take what dispatch says with a grain of salt. They can't see whats happening just what they are told.
I catch myself knocking on someones door and standing right in front of it often. In my mind I call myself a dummy. It is something I have got to remember and stop doing.
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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it brings up the question - when does scene safety evaluation occur?
answer... ongoing
we were called to a house fire... not a domestic dispute...
QUICKLY... the scene safety status changed... everyone needed to be updated... and people with bigger guns and handcuffs were invited... AND WE LEFT ... for a while...
the interesting thing to note was that since I served in the country, I was use to seeing many people with weapons at house fires... and other places... since in that State they are permitted to carry concealed weapons... so lots of people do... and when your house is on fire, one of the first things "smart people" take out is their guns and ammo... so on more than 15 fires I had arrived on scene to find people standing around holding guns... we normally just tell them for safety reasons, they need to be unloaded and locked in the trunk of a car or a neighbor's house so that they are not standing on scene holding them... we also commonly see them in car accidents, find them on patients, and randomly laying about at house medical calls
what was different about this fire was the man holding the gun pointed at my chest telling me that he would not permit the FD to put the house out, UNTIL his wife came out... the bizarre thing was he was not agitated... he was calm and cool and clear... which made him way more scary than raging lunatic... it was clear, he was not making an idol threat... (his elementary school age children were putting the house out with the garden hose 40' away from me)
UPDATED Scene Safety Size-Up:
1) F'n Crazy people with live weapons pointed at FD
2) F'n Crazy people threatening to kill each other
3) Children in danger
4) Crazy lady (maybe trapped) in the burning house
5) Oh yeah, house is on fire
6) Deep in the forest... pending forest fire in a few minutes...
7) Oh yeah, no water source for miles (in case anyone cares at this point in the size-up)
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