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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on March 9, 2014 at 6:25pm

All of my response  are in bold.

 

Seriously all of your questions could be answered with this simple statement.

In today's litigious society lack of a training prgram and records to show people are trained any vehicle incident will be a bigger legal nightmare than necessary.

 

With EVOC courses being more and more common - just what is the responsibility of the driver ?

 

To safely and efficiently deleiver the rig and personnel to the scene and back to quarters safely.  To be able to properly operate the rig and all equipment on that rig.  Also to be able to do basic maintenance and some small repairs to the rig and equipment.

 Is it merely to get a rig to a fire - is it to pump water ?

Both.  A driver that can't pump shouldn't be driving, and there is no reason to have one person drive and another one pump once they arrive on scene.

 

 Is there any part of the course that teaches how to safely leave and safely re-enter the fire house ?

There is the alley dock manuever which simulates backing into and pulling out of a narrow passage.

 

 Why put the new guy behind the wheel when you don't know how he drives in his own car ?

Well, if he isn't trained, you wouldn't.  But if you never put them behind the wheel for training how do you train them?  My #1 POC FD runs a license check on every member every year.  If our insurance company deems you too high a risk you don't drive, PERIOD!

 

 Does the apparatus officer bare any responsibility if the driver is negligent ?

Duh?  Seriously, as an officer on an ambulance one night we were driving to a water rescue training and my driver was going almost 45 through a residential area.  I told him to slow down to the speed limit.  He chuckled and kept on.  I said to him, slow down or pull over and get out of the driver's seat.  Then I told him it that ever happened again I would right him up and make sure he was suspended from driving. 

The officer is responsible for the rig.  On my career FD if a driver got into an accident the officer might be held as responsible as the driver if the investigation showed that the officer failed to act to correct a dangerous situation. 

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Permalink Reply by Rick on March 9, 2014 at 6:50pm

  So far I respect all the input - there seems to be a large gap between paid and Volunteer departments - but one point remains - there doesn't seem to be a "Published  driver training course" or a written outline of "Responsibilty" or accountability training for things such as safe entering or leaving the fire house.

 

 Some companies use road guides out side the fire house - some use interior/exterior road guides - but no course outline or "Standards" for same.

 

 I could be wrong or just missing something - what if a guy backs a rig into the fire house and hits some one inside that he didn't see ? Is he just let off with a warning or is the driver subject to disciplinary actions ?

 

 It seems we worry about the ordinary Joe - but not about our own !

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on March 9, 2014 at 7:50pm

Mandatory back-up person on my former career FD and on both of the POC FDs I am a member of.  It is really that simple and if you make that part of your driving SOG it is known to all drivers.

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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on March 10, 2014 at 12:59am

 A cert in Driver/Operator is essential. EVOC is a joke, a simple drive around some cones to satisfy the insurance companies & any other yard breathing desck jokies who may need to justify there paycheck. 

  Everyone thinks evoc is needed because it sounds cool.  How about we call it.."Drive between these cones and back up over there then pull in and stop here."  

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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on March 10, 2014 at 11:08am

Rick, you are not missing a thing. Every department does there own thing. Now here's what can be done. If you want to take the time. You can write a driver training coarse plan. Send it off to the state and explain why you feel this coarse needs to be implemented. This is how some of our standard training has came from here in NY. If this sounds reasonable I would be more then glad to help. In the meantime if a driver backs up a truck and hits one of are own. Every department is going to handle it the way the see fit. If he kills him God be with him and the department.

It is may belief we have came along ways on trying to protect our own. We have along way to go and driver standards and responsibility's along with good training needs to be looked at. The we have always done it this way thinking has to go. Good question you put up here and you have got all the answers. I'm just not sure what more your after.

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Permalink Reply by Rick on March 10, 2014 at 12:35pm

 Thank you everyone - a Chief I used to work for had a little game he played - besides monthly training he would start a conversation. It could be when we were all having coffee or lunch - whenever - some times he'd walk in with an old tool .

   Like a hammer looking thing - one side of the head was like a normal hammer - the other side was  1 inch round - 4 inch long - with a flat tip. He'd start talking about what a curious tool he found - he'd give his opinion as what it was or what it could be used for. Then he'd put it on the table and leave.

 Some times everyone would discuss it - some times it was moved around and put aside. He would never ask about it again - the only time he talked about it after that was when one of us asked him.

 

  I guess you can see where this is going - he could have just told you what it was - why didn't he ? He wanted to start a discussion and also see who would research it on their own. He knew if he as a Chief was to just ask , "What is this - or - this is a" the guys wouldn't debate it as much.

 

 He let you think - he educated you by letting you figure it out with the help of your crew members. Even if you got it wrong - even if only one guy worked at figuring it out - most everyone joined in the discussion.

 

Sooner or later we'd get it right.

 

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