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Help Needed for Fireground Accountability
Ok, i don't know if this topic was posted before, but i'm sorry but this is a major issue with my department and I am in desperate need of some help before things go south in a hurry. So on to my topic. I am currently serving with a volunteer department that has absolutely no accountability or anything like that for fire scenes. We have no i.d. tags for our firefighters, we have no b.a. control boards, no incident command/incident command boards, no rit teams or any kind of staging areas. Not to mention the whole fact as soon as a member is brought aboard, once they are given their pager and their gear, they turn them loose, let them get on the truck with little or no knowledge of the fire service what so ever! So please, if someone could help me out here on how to get this implemented in a department in which the guys running the ship are in the "old school" mentality and aren't focused on this end of things or when the issue is brought up, you are laughed out of the room. So like I said, if someone could help me out here i'd really appreciate it. Thanks again.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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Ya get the hell out of there!!!! I'm not sure how its set up where your from but all cheifs have to answer somebody like my station cheif answers to the Cheif in the muncipality and he answers to the mayor.The only problem is be ready for a s**t storm if you go over his head but it sounds like you needchanges before someone gets hurt or worse.There are really no suggestions for you but to go above his head if you have brought up the issue to him directly and he laughs at you.Unless like i said get he hell out!!
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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Richard is right. Go elsewhere or be ready to keep your mouth shut for a long time. If you stay all you can hope for is that someday (could be years) you'll become a leader in the department and you'll be able to start changing things. For me it took ten years before I could really begin making a difference. I was lucky, though. This is already a good department. Start with training, then gradually add those necessities like the accountability system.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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Do you have regular meetings? Are there committees established in the dept.? ( I think I already know the answer, but it should be asked).
How many active FF in the dept.? How do people get into officer's positions?
This is a bad scenario looking to get worse. You have to look after your brothers' safety. Who cares (in this situation) if you step on toes. Lives are literally on the line here. That mess has to change.
That whole getting "laughed out of the room" is silly. Stand your ground. Be "bigger" than they are. Say your piece and make sure you are heard. You're not looking to be popular here, you're looking to keep your family, friends and community safe. Then again, I don't know your whole story, or your departments whole story. My comments are based on an image in my mind.
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Permalink Reply by Firefighter30 on
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Derek, we`re supposed to have meetings the first wednesday of every month, in summer, two a month, but that hasn`t happen, it`s like our cheif holds meeting when it`s convenient for him or when "it's not getting in the way of everyone's vatation time". We have no committees established, no training office, and our meetings are a joke, no organization what so ever. We have two full time memebers, our cheif, and one of our deputies, the rest of the 38 man roster is volunteer. And don't even get me started on the "officer's" positions, it's if a spot opens up, the cheif puts one of his "buddies" in the postion, with or without experience on the fire ground. And i agree with you on the standing my ground, and i have been talking to alot of people who are current/past memebers of our department and they are backin me 100% that there needs to be change and it has to happen now. I just need to do this so it doesn't get back to the cheif or any of his buddies in his "clique" who can rat me out.....Again guys, thanks for the help, and as much as i want to quit this department and move on, they're paying for me to get my NFPA 1001 certification and I have two courses left, but trust me as soon as that's done, if change hasn't been implemented.....there will be change.....
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our cheif answers to our senior director of corporate affairs, in which he answers to the city mayor, but as for as someone like a municipal cheif, i'm not really sure who he answers to.....
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But my last ditch effore will be calling OH&S and getting them in to do a safety audit or something along those lines and then our cheif and the "highter ups" will have some serious answering to do
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Permalink Reply by mike on
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that what incident command is for it sounds like u have no leader ship u need to get new leaders starting with ur cheif sorry but thats how im reading it
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i need to say this im sorry wrong r right your chief is a total moron n needs to be thrown out of the company 8u need to rally the good members n empty the trash ever posistion in our company is by elections n only by elections first week is nonmations by members then we have the paper vote then their read counted against members voting then results read aloud thats how u run a company
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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Bro coming in here and whining about your Chief and leadership isnt gonna change the problem you indicate you have. You are not the Chief or the leadership of the department. If you truly were interested in changing things you would be discussing this with your leadership an not airing your dirty laundry for all to see. What do you think you will accomplish by asking for opinions on here? You are not the first nor the last to seek sympathy for your plight. You need to discuss this within your agency or get out. Might hope that someone within your agency dosnt see this post or hear about it. You'll find yourself on the outside looking in. Maybe thats what you need to do anyhow. I dont know what you seem to think you'll accomplish by posting this here. Sympathy isnt going to change your circumstances.
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Bro???? are you kidding me here? i'm coming on here to try and get some input and give some background on my department. I am not one to come on here and "whine" about anything, and i hope someone does see this from my department and maybe things will change. I am coming on here as someone who wants to get this stuff implimented on my department and am looking for ways to do that. So i really appreciate your "opinion" but if you're gonna come on here and blast someone who wants change, and can't get it from within the department, then you need to take your opinions elsewhere.....
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Permalink Reply by James Borsellino on
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Find out the federal and States regulations on Labour and employer relations and the penalties to the heads of employers for the injury or death of an emplyee, due to lack of training, lack of guidelines and preceedures and not doing due diligence in the emplyee's safety. If they laugh those off after they see the fines for failing to do those, they should be fired! They will probably see the light really quick.
If they say they have no idea where to start to set up IMS, then mention Pheonix Fire Chief Al Brutasini's IMS programs. They are the foundation for all our IMS systems.
If all that fails i have to agree with Richard.........GET THE HELL OUT ! I started with the good old boys club and they hated me because I was young, out spoken and refused to conform to them! I also insisted on accually doing training on training nights instead of gossiping! They ran me out of that station, but not before I set the stage for the four newer guys to see that the old way was not the right way and four was too many to beat! If they had only been hired six months sooner!
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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So you don't have an accountability system in place... not a good thing. I totally get the fact that you are simply trying to fix things. With that in mind, and as the individual who brought the passport system to my department, I offer the following advice brother...
1. visit other departments in your area, FD's that will be your mutual aid. find out what they use and copy it, period.
2. don't reinvent the wheel here, none of it is rocket science, it's just a simple way to keep track of folks and you can do it yourself, sans paying big bucks to a canned system.
3. here's some key points for you to accomplish and use:
* each ff needs about 8 tags, color coded as to rank, with their name e.g. M.Schlags CPT
* when you come on duty, or man an engine, you take one tag and put it on the right door inside panel. this is to enable anyone from going to your engine and knowing who was on it and who they were.
* the second passport tag is given to the engine company captain, and is velcroed on the front of the portable radio. this is done to make it simple for an engine company to check into staging by simply taking off the "passport tag" which is a separate piece of plastic, engraved with the department and engine company identifier. the individual passport tags are attached to this larger than a credit card sized card that has velcro on the back side as well. This card is then removed from the front of the Captain's radio and given to the staging or check-in officer. P
* passport tags, are small enough to be velcroed under the rear of your helmet, extra tags are carried here and I suggested extras right up front because they do tend to wander sometimes... and it's slow to get replacements...
Is this the type of thing your are looking for FF30?
And... if you are doing high rise stuff, this is one of the cleanest system to make use of the passport system and highrise accountability... all you need is a door, passport clipboard (velcro on it already to attach passports), WD40 and a red rag plus a wax black marker to write on the door... hard to explain but here's a picture:
here's a close up of the "needed tools":
Now that you know how to collect the passports, you also have to make note as to who is on what floor and their assignments... remember... it's all about accountability!
I know that you are just loving this post, not having to "reinvent the wheel". Feel free to email me at mschlags@gmail.com if you have any further questions or need training stuff. Now that I'm retired... I have the time... but remember, I don't mind giving stuff away and consulting for free but I do live coffee cups, patches, tee shirts, etc. :D
Later brother,
CBz
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