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Permalink Reply by Triple J on December 14, 2011 at 8:59pm

Elections are something that should have been done away with 50 years ago. Certifications and performance are the way to go! I can emphasize with 'Moose' because I was in his shoes many years ago. I finally gave up trying to futily run for office because I wouldn't compromise my principles. Funny thing was, I was seen by the people who actually showed up to calls as a strong defacto leader!

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Permalink Reply by Moose on December 16, 2011 at 11:04am

No disrespect to you Naughty, but the reason it will never change is because of the attitude you just displayed.  If we dont band together as a group (you know, the whole brotherhood thing?  Which is another topic alltogether) we can never effectively change our local states procedures and laws to make it so that any volunteer fire officer has to have a certain training and experience level in order to be appointed or elected. 

Its the worst in the smaller departments, with very few members who all know each other and are afraid to say at a meeting that their leadership isnt doing anything for the department and that they need to step down and allow someone else to run for officer.  That and there is no limit to the terms of office, I have seen a fire chief with a 15 year term in office...I think a change is needed atleast every 4 to 5 years, let someone else step up and take the reins so the dept doesnt settle in to complacency and repetition.  Sure, the outgoing chief can run for another office or start at the beginning again, but atleast let someone else take control.

 

But, I fear you may be right in some aspects, because too many people dont care about training in the smaller volunteer departmetns, they only care about image and ego.  I hope things will change though...

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Permalink Reply by Aric Stewart on December 16, 2011 at 11:54pm

Guys i have to agree with all that is being said but the being afraid of speaking up at a meeting or not having guidelines set forth for an line officer is just not smart business on a vol. department. think about it like this if they don't want to hold them selves to a higher standard then that is a people of the department problem.  There is always training to be done but in the good ole boy system it is always oh there are just 3 or 4 of us here why train we know everything.  The first thing i learned is that there is always something to be learned no matter how long you have been a firefighter.  The good ole boy system has died in most departments but still is around in a few and it is sad that these departments still rely on this system and i feel sorry for them.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on December 17, 2011 at 3:25am

being afraid of speaking up at a meeting or not having guidelines set forth for an line officer is just not smart business on a vol. department...............think about it like this if they don't want to hold them selves to a higher standard then that is a people of the department problem.

 

Yes and no. Yes, that it does become the standards in which the membership wants to, or should hold the leadership up to. No, about not having standards in place. It does not, nor should not take a chief or any other officer to look to instill such standards. The body is the entity that should instill such standards and actually demand them to be placed. When it comes to elected officer positions, the reality is and should be, that the membership can overrule any other rule/suggestion implemented by officers.......................Which means if the membership wants standards in place and the officers don't, them the body should have the say.

 

Now I know this is easier said than done, but the other reality is the overall govt entity that does have a say over the volunteer elected officers, and that is the municipal, county, township, etc elected officials. Point being if the FD refuses to change, there are those who can loo to implement such changes. Quite simply, this could mean a chief is appointed as opposed to voted on.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on December 17, 2011 at 3:38am

I have to say in my own personal opinion, I have NO regards to any such a sytem. I despise the concept of electing officers and believe that doing so is a bogus and an outdated system. I personally believe that no officer should be in a position due in part to an election based on popular vote.

 

Having served in the military, no officer is just voted on their position, yet at the same time, a good officer solicits the input of those under them. However, an officer is also tasked with making the final and albeit, correct decision without regards to popularity. Unfortunately we see way too much popularity in voting officers as opposed to qualifications.

 

Now, in my own personal opinion, I truly do not put much if any stock into someone claiming to be a chief or officer who was elected into their position. I do hold and have respect for those in a larger municipal setting who are an LT or Capt, etc who earned their position as opposed to one voted in because of popularity. This means I would take more stock from someone like that as opposed to someone with less years than a firefighter getting through their propationary steps and holds an officer rank.

 

Point being for me, and I'm not holding back, is I could give a crap less if one holds an officer rank on these forums. I look at profiles and I make my judgements based on what I see and quite honestly, I haven't been impressed by those "elected" type of officers. One can tell the salt or crust of those who have been around and know the job and know their stuff as opposed to someone filling a slot. So yeah, I don't hold much stock for elected officers, nor those from a good ol boys system (trust me, you can tell).

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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on December 17, 2011 at 7:05pm

Testify Brother Crabbe! 

             

The reality is in many volly/POC FDs there is the official leadership and the real leadership.  If you really want to know who the leaders are on a volunteer fire department look at who the line firefighters turn to at an emergency scene, or anytime that they need help, or a question answered, or want to know how to do something.

 

My one POC FD has seen discontent erupt at a few meetings this year from the line firefighters directed at the officers.  If no one ever speaks up the same old same old will continue.

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